Enjoying the data driven approach of this forum! Wanted to get some suggestions of speakers to look at for mixing/mastering. Need to stay under 6k usd new or used. Looking for high resolution, full range, near to near/mid use. Currently using Neumann kh310 which are great but don't always translate quite right for me. Looking for a monitor that will steer mixing decisions quickly. Thanks!
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Studio monitor suggestions under $6k used
- Thread starter fuzzdose
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Focus would be on nearfield use, 1-3m, so SPL not a priority as I mix fairly low but I wouldn't mind something that could exceed the 310 for louder tracking and playback. I like 3way designs and find the dedicated mid range helpful for critical listening. I'm not opposed to subs but would prefer something that doesn't rely on them as they definitely can complicate things once you get into monitors with super fast transient response. I'm open though, curious to get other perspectives.
You can get the Genelec 8341A for $6k on Sweetwater (maybe less somewhere else), but unlike the 8351B, I wouldn't call it "music fullrange" at -6 dB at 38 Hz. I'd consider either a pair of 8350A, 7360A/8340A or 7350A/8330A GLM combo.
Honestly, the KH310A is already a beast, though with a compromised directivity due to the compact layout. Exceeding it isn't gonna be easy or cheap.
https://www.frontendaudio.com/genelec-8351b-dsp-studio-monitor-package/ is over budget, but you do save $400 on the whole. Maybe if you can haggle?
Honestly, the KH310A is already a beast, though with a compromised directivity due to the compact layout. Exceeding it isn't gonna be easy or cheap.
https://www.frontendaudio.com/genelec-8351b-dsp-studio-monitor-package/ is over budget, but you do save $400 on the whole. Maybe if you can haggle?
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This sounds more to me like a room (correction) problem in which case just changing one very good monitor to another won't help you further. If I were you I would do some FR measurements at your listening position.
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
Yeah, I was quite miffed to find out what my acoustic panels did to my O110s in measurements (somewhat reminiscent of my trusty Sennheiser HD590s), although curiously I needed far less EQ than indicated when doing it by ear with pink noise - microphones clearly aren't ears.
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Room is treated and is pretty flat with some dips around 115hz. The 310 is definitely picky about placement. I guess it's more of a feel thing when mixing, they can be a bit more forgiving in mid s than I like. Just looking to demo some alternatives. I enjoy the speakers, will keep the 310s regardless.
LightninBoy
Addicted to Fun and Learning
The KH310s are some awesome monitors. You can certainly replace them with other awesome monitors from the usual suspects, but who knows if that will solve the translation problem? That seems like kind of a crapshoot, honestly, as the the midrange in the new awesome monitors are likely as flat as your current awesome monitors, so nothing is really gained.
Have you considered augmenting the awesome monitors with something not so awesome or even bad? That's the role the Yamaha NS10s played for decades. The Yamaha HS series has a similar midrange spike that characterized the NS10s. You could also try products like Aurotones 5C that are designed to check mixes with compromised playback. Just a thought.
Have you considered augmenting the awesome monitors with something not so awesome or even bad? That's the role the Yamaha NS10s played for decades. The Yamaha HS series has a similar midrange spike that characterized the NS10s. You could also try products like Aurotones 5C that are designed to check mixes with compromised playback. Just a thought.
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Are they on or near a desk/console? - You may want to make sure to mind a potential bounce there too.
As for another pair of monitors.. Consider something like the Revel M126be (or M106 if you're looking for something cheaper). You'll need a seperate amp, but they're also neutral, although of wider dispersion. I've tested several brands/models (JBL 7 series, Neumann KH, Genelec) and if I were to mix or master, I'd definitely want a pair of Revels in the studio - in a way they provide more insight into recordings than all of the actual studio monitors I've tried and it's easy to hear if something is right or 'off' tonally or spacially.
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I wonder how the Revels hold up with daily professional use. Many high-end studio monitors are designed with long hours of continuous play in mind. How are the Revel tweeters cooled?
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Not familiar with the exact specs, although with a designer like Mark Glazer and Harman's substantial R&D facilities I wouldn't worry too much about that. Each of the Revel products tested here (and in other places) so far came out very well in terms of linearity, directivity, distortion and subjective impression. I own and have owned other 'objectively good' loudspeakers, but it's easiest to discern differences between recordings on any of my Revels. I own the F206, M105 and C208. The C208 is actually my favorite, although it is designated a center speaker, I don't see why it couldn't be used as a midfield monitor in a stereo setting. It's a bit bulky, but it's a powerhouse - and with its smaller 4" midrange its dispersion pattern fits the tweeter/waveguide assembly perfectly.
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Which amp do you like to use with Revels? Also, Looking at the C208 I am intrigued. Anyone care to comment on using 2 of these center channels in stereo pair? Also an aluminum tweet on some monitors not my fave for long periods of mixing. Wonder about listening fatigue...?
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The Performa3s are the only series I'm personally familiar with (as in own) and they aren't very difficult to drive. Any decent modern power amplifier should do the trick. I can't speak for the Be series although I suspect it's in the same ballpark. The Ultima2 series are more difficult to drive I've been told. I've used anything from a DIY amp with Anaview modules (it's what the previous gen Amphion amps used as well) and even an older NAD 2200 (tested here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-2200-vintage-amplifier-review.13960/ ).
In terms of listening fatigue, all of this stuff more often than not shows up in the anechoic measurements. Like its siblings the C208 has, as far as I can tell, no issues in this regard. Since I use the C208 as a center channel it's arguably the speaker I've listened to both the most in total, and longest in one sitting. Based on the anechoic measurements I've installed one PEQ filter to tame a slight peak (5,7kHz, -1,3dB, Q=2), but other than that there's really nothing to correct which is pretty neat for a passive loudspeaker. Some additional EQ in the modal region is of course always necessary and that's no different with this one.
I suspect something like the M126Be will give you slightly more top-end refinement in a more compact form. But if you have the space and can use these in a midfield orientation, I'm sure the C208 won't disappoint either.
Maybe you should ask at GS with more details or even examples what is going wrong with single pair of O310s.
Your question sounds like you need something "different" to overcome inevitable bias of single monitoring pair. But it's not easy to guess what is "translate not quite right" without examples.
I'm not sure if you will find something much better than O310 under 6K. Maybe used ATC 25A pair like
https://reverb.com/item/4550938-atc-loudspeakers-scm25a-pro-studio-monitor-pair-mint-condition
They have good reviews from pros like
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/2019/0...-for-atc-scm25a-three-way-reference-monitors/
But to avoid expensive errors you will have to listen them by yourself. And they are not really full-range by any means.
Without understanding your mix problems it's not so easy to recommend anything.
Even despite fact that i'm not an sound engineer at all.
Maybe you could add 1 or 2 subs for your O310s and get something totally different (but flat enough) small nearfield to correct mistakes you make with Neumann? Sometimes it can be even hi-fi gear like KEF LSX or Spendor 3/5 ...
Also, there are Dynaudio BM15A if you need something not so flat and dry and with more fat low end.
Your question sounds like you need something "different" to overcome inevitable bias of single monitoring pair. But it's not easy to guess what is "translate not quite right" without examples.
I'm not sure if you will find something much better than O310 under 6K. Maybe used ATC 25A pair like
https://reverb.com/item/4550938-atc-loudspeakers-scm25a-pro-studio-monitor-pair-mint-condition
They have good reviews from pros like
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/2019/0...-for-atc-scm25a-three-way-reference-monitors/
But to avoid expensive errors you will have to listen them by yourself. And they are not really full-range by any means.
Without understanding your mix problems it's not so easy to recommend anything.
Even despite fact that i'm not an sound engineer at all.
Maybe you could add 1 or 2 subs for your O310s and get something totally different (but flat enough) small nearfield to correct mistakes you make with Neumann? Sometimes it can be even hi-fi gear like KEF LSX or Spendor 3/5 ...
Also, there are Dynaudio BM15A if you need something not so flat and dry and with more fat low end.
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True in my experience. I'm happy with the KH310, but I was also wondering if other monitors might be easier to get to sound "right". But I have never really compared others. Adding a sub (KH750) made a huge difference for me in my small room though.
The Kh-750 sub, with the Neumann.control DSP (as in the Kh-80), now can be used as a lineariser (frequency and phase) for analog Neumann speakers (Kh-120, Kh-310 and even Kh420). It will improve your Kh-310 on several fronts: Less distortion thanks to the bass being directed to the sub, and better phase behaviour (I understand frequency is already practically perfect in the 310). Besides, it accepts digital sources (BNC) as well as analog. There is one possible caveat for some people, though: Neumann has confirmed that its DSP resamples everything to 48khz (they claim "Applying signals way above 20 kHz leads to convolution effects at the driver which negatively influences the reproduction quality").
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