PS Audio Talking Smack About Amirm

[MakeMineVinyl]

Fighting words at 4:50

 

[Asylum Seeker]

Very dangerous...create doubt through bogus measurements.

 

[Omar Cumming]

He says he wants to publish his own analyzer results. So STFU and do it! We will see who gets it right.

Cheers

 

[Blumlein 88]

Put up or shut up. Does he really have AP measuring gear? I thought previously they indicated otherwise.
Omar beat me too it by a few seconds.

 

[sweetchaos]

He's saying we should trust the vendor measurements (his measurements), vs a 3rd party (with no conflict of interest) who analyzes and publishes the measurements?

 

[restorer-john]

Put up or shut up. Does he really have AP measuring gear?

They have several AP units IIRC. Take the youtube factory tour and look at the test/soak benches. They appear to be incredibly well equipped if you ask me.

Here's a part in JA's tour at the 9:04min mark...

 

[MZKM]

They have several AP units IIRC. Take the youtube factory tour and look at the test/soak benches. They appear to be incredibly well equipped if you ask me.

But wasn’t the unit Ted Smith used when he was complaining about Amir’s results a low end analyzer only capable of 16bit (I can’t clearly remember)?

 

[jtwrace]

Put up or shut up. Does he really have AP measuring gear?

Having taken a tour of PSA, oh yes they have it. Honestly, I was shocked by how much they actually have. What they do with it VS him, I have no idea. I'd love to hear Darren Myers talk about it as he's very young and fits the Paul model already. Remember, the overhead of PSA is massive as they really do have ~50 employees and a large building. In the end, it's all about the numbers!

 

[virtuovice]

Likely hurt PS Audio by mentioning Amir and ASR in his own video. Unnecessary.

 

[tjkadar]

Paul insinuates that it is Amir's measuring methodology, not the equipment that is flawed. If Paul is confident in this, why doesn't he publish the measuring methodology? In this way, the measurement methodology will be the same and the results verified.

Based on what I've read regarding Amir's review of Denon products and his interaction with Denon engineers, it appears Denon is confident in Amir's knowledge, technical acuity, and ability to accurately measure their products.

I also have faith in Amir's integrity. If Amir does err in his methodology, he will admit it, explain it, and correct it.

Personally, I have confidence in Amir's results.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Many, many years ago, I was working on a friend's PS Audio preamp and I managed to blow the output on one channel when my test probe slipped. I called them and spoke to Paul himself, and he said basically 'oh, just throw a 2N3904 and 2N3906 in there, its close enough'.

 

[jtwrace]

Check out the wankerfest

"out with the measurement gear...."

 

[March Audio]

Fighting words at 4:50

Wow. The guy is a moron. Doesn't he realise that plenty of technically competent people examine and understand what Amir is doing so know its just fine.

They won't start publishing their own AP data because it will show many of the products to be distinctly technically average. He knows this. We know this. He is is just playing to the gallery, the fan boys that already own PS gear.

 

[watchnerd]

Put up or shut up. Does he really have AP measuring gear? I thought previously they indicated otherwise.
Omar beat me too it by a few seconds.

He says they have the same equipment.

They're big enough that I don't have reason to doubt that prima facie.

Publishing results, though....they won't publish anything unflattering.

 

[March Audio]

There is a simple solution to this get @SIY to choose a an amp, measure it on his AP then send it to Amir then Paul and we can see how the 3 stack up.

I would be prepared to wager a tidy sum that Paul will not accept the challenge.

 

[restorer-john]

Paul insinuates that it is Amir's measuring methodology, not the equipment that is flawed. If Paul is confident in this, why doesn't he publish the measuring methodology? In this way, the measurement methodology will be the same and the results verified.

Based on what I've read regarding Amir's review of Denon products and his interaction with Denon engineers, it appears Denon is confident in Amir's knowledge, technical acuity, and ability to accurately measure their products.

Personally, I have confidence in Amir's results. I don't feel the same about PS Audio, which is why I am not, nor will I be, a PS Audio customer.

He doesn't need to. A public data slanging match with an internet review website is not constructive. Not sure why people are always looking for a cockfight with PS Audio, they've been producing gear for many decades and have clearly a wonderful operation full of extremely talented people.

They have plenty of test equipment and no doubt know exactly how to use it. Massively more detailed testing needs to occur than the simple spec numbers indicate and yet people think everything can be boiled down to a few AP plots and a few lines of commentary- it can't. Go look at Bascom's lab in one of the online youtube videos- he too has an older AP (along with plenty of other gear, some custom built). The AP is not the only measuring device a good engineer must have. There have been plenty before and there will plenty after.

In Paul's videos he has a 30 year old Leader LDM-171 sitting behind him as a prop. I still have one on my lab bench also for quick measurements to -80dB and a great AC millivoltmeter down to 30uV. Even that ancient thing is phenomenally useful for certain things.

Here's another AP unit in the video linked above, with a custom load box by the looks:

It just gets really tiresome, the attacks on PSA. I think it's pathetic to be honest. Either buy their stuff or don't.

We are grown men, not a bunch of silly little internet bullies.

 

[pozz]

He should just publish the measurements. Competent review will give them their proper context anyway.

 

[March Audio]

He doesn't need to. A public data slanging match with an internet review website is not constructive. Not sure why people are always looking for a cockfight with PS Audio, they've been producing gear for many decades and have clearly a wonderful operation full of extremely talented people.

They have plenty of test equipment and no doubt know exactly how to use it. Massively more detailed testing needs to occur than the simple spec numbers indicate and yet people think everything can be boiled down to a few AP plots and a few lines of commentary- it can't. Go look at Bascom's lab in one of the online youtube videos- he too has an older AP (along with plenty of other gear, some custom built). The AP is not the only measuring device a good engineer must have. There have been plenty before and there will plenty after.

In Paul's videos he has a 30 year old Leader LDM-171 sitting behind him as a prop. I still have one on my lab bench also for quick measurements to -80dB and a great AC millivoltmeter down to 30uV. Even that ancient thing is phenomenally useful for certain things.

Here's another AP unit in the video linked above, with a custom load box by the looks:
View attachment 80401

It just gets really tiresome, the attacks on PSA. I think it's pathetic to be honest. Either buy their stuff or don't.

We are grown men, not a bunch of silly little internet bullies.

Good grief John it was Paul that insulted Amir.

I have also seen some of Paul's videos where he talks utter technical nonsense. It's Paul choosing to go into the public domain with this stuff, so I don't think the criticism of PSA is without justification.

Anyway, at the end of the day the measurements speak for themselves. I would like to see Paul justify his implication that Amirs test results/techniques are faulty.

 

[ta240]

Oh the irony, posting his videos in a high traffic forum makes them look better to Youtube and makes it more likely that they will recommend them to more users.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Good grief John it was Paul that insulted Amir.

I have also seen some of his videos where he talks technical nonsense so I don't think the criticism of PSA is without justification

Yes, what struck me is that he went out of his way to disparage somebody else. That was unwarranted as far as I'm concerned. He should just do his video and not editorialize about anybody else.