A millennial's rant on classical music

[MRC01]

I'd say base emotional appeal, I'm sure most would agree that Romantic music's essence is emotions.

Yes, but more than that. Chopin, Schubert, Liszt, etc. also have form & structure that is intellectually appealing, in addition to the emotional appeal. Pop/rock music lacks this (with a few exceptions that prove the rule); it is pure base emotional appeal which makes it one-dimensional. Sure, like anyone else I can enjoy rocking out to AC/DC but it's a flat experience lacking depth and subtlety.

 

[MRC01]

PS This may be where some of the snob reputation comes from. Pop/rock is simpler and one-dimensional, can be appreciated without any experience or training. It's fun and people who know little or nothing about music can enjoy it. A lot of classical music can also be appreciated like this, but it also has depth in additional dimensions. As one gains musical experience and learns to listen for form & structure, the music has more to reveal to those willing to explore.

There's an analogy to fine literature here. The greatest novels are multi-dimensional and have something to express on multiple levels. Every few years we come back and read them again, and find something new we didn't notice the last time. Good music is like this.

 

[Sal1950]

I have no idea what the timbre of any electric instrument is, so couldn't judge with that music even though I love it and have for over 50 years.

True, and I have no idea what the timbre of a live classical orchestra sounds like since I never heard one.
The good news is I can rely on measurements to tell me if a speaker is doing good job or not. They will tell me if it can get the FR right, how loud it can play with X power, what the distortion level might be a X spl, etc.
A really good speaker will sound great no matter what kind of music you feed it.

 

[Robin L]

. . . I have no idea what the timbre of a live classical orchestra sounds like since I never heard one.

You should try it sometime, it can sound way better than any stereo.

 

[MRC01]

... A really good speaker will sound great no matter what kind of music you feed it.

Not always. A really good speaker may also reveal flaws that lesser speakers mask. With a really good speaker, all your recordings sound more different from each other than they did with lesser gear. Usually for better, sometimes for worse.

 

[Colonel7]

I've long ago stopped caring about what other people think of my musical taste, or other people's tastes other than to be open to new recordings that they enjoy. I'd be hard pressed to think of genres that I don't like or recognize brilliance in at least some recordings. The older I get the more I do spend listening to classical, and only recently started delving into opera. I am old enough (or young enough) to have been part of the last group in my high school to take a music appreciation class (1982) before it was no longer offered due to lack of interest. Probably best class I ever took at any level and not a week goes by that I don't draw from it.

 

[Sal1950]

Not always. A really good speaker may also reveal flaws that lesser speakers mask. With a really good speaker, all your recordings sound more different from each other than they did with lesser gear. Usually for better, sometimes for worse.

That's absolutely true, but how does it go against what I said?
The idea is to build a High Fidelity system, not a tone control.

 

[REK2575]

Hmm, I get the feeling all the people who claimed to watch the video didn't actually listen to what's being said, because he directly refutes some of the opinions written here. Especially about the musics supposed transcendence being proved by the fact it survived for hundreds of years. I'm waiting for someone to directly address the arguments that were made there. And you can spare me the comments about how his delivery annoys you and that's why you watched only half way through…

Except in this case, the style of delivery is an obvious and highly irritating way of glossing over numerous claims that he does nothing to substantiate. Talk fast enough and throw in enough bromides about "the nineteenth century" amid a wash of claims about aesthetics, politics, economics, the history of music etc. etc. etc. and one might be fooled into thinking the guy knows what he's talking about.

 

[MRC01]

That's absolutely true, but how does it go against what I said?
The idea is to build a High Fidelity system, not a tone control.

I find that a really good speaker doesn't always sound great, no matter what kind of music you feed it. After upgrading speakers, you may find that some of your albums sound worse, not better. You may notice dynamic compression, frequency response anomalies, etc. that were there all along, but masked by inferior speakers. Of course, many of your recordings will indeed sound better. Just not all of them.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

And then there's the wonderful strangeness of Bieber, or the profundity of Ennemond Gaultier.

Can I presume you meant Biber?

 

[Sal1950]

You should try it sometime, it can sound way better than any stereo.

So does live rock, blues, and jazz.
It's not like I don't want to go to a classical concert, just one of those things I never got around to.
On the other hand, I'd give a months pay and drive cross country to hear Pink Floyd live one more time.
I've got a small library of classical CD's, (about 50), belonged to a BBC CD of the month club for a few years to get a taste of the genre. Don't think I ever played any more than once or twice, meh, nothing there for me. Except for a couple Bach organ ones that I occasionally would play for friends to show off my big subwoofers.

 

[Robin L]

Can I presume you meant Biber?

Sho' is confusing.
Yes, I meant Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber, not that skinny, pale kid.

 

[Sal1950]

I find that a really good speaker doesn't always sound great, no matter what kind of music you feed it. After upgrading speakers, you may find that some of your albums sound worse, not better. You may notice dynamic compression, frequency response anomalies, etc. that were there all along, but masked by inferior speakers. Of course, many of your recordings will indeed sound better. Just not all of them.

Yea I get that, been there, was hard for me to listen to some of the 50-60s rock stuff I have. That's when a good frontend with some controls can come to the rescue

 

[Robin L]

So does live rock, blues, and jazz.
It's not like I don't want to go to a classical concert, just one of those things I never got around to.
On the other hand, I'd give a months pay and drive cross country to hear Pink Floyd live one more time.
I've got a small library of classical CD's, (about 50), belonged to a BBC CD of the month club for a few years to get a taste of the genre. Don't think I ever played any more than once or twice, meh, nothing there for me. Except for a couple Bach organ ones that I occasionally would play for friends to show off my big subwoofers.

Seriously, splurge, get a front row seat for the Rite of Spring. Played right it really rocks.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That's absolutely true, but how does it go against what I said?
The idea is to build a High Fidelity system, not a tone control.

Right. If you have a good, honest system, you can always add a tone control.

 

[q3cpma]

PS This may be where some of the snob reputation comes from. Pop/rock is simpler and one-dimensional, can be appreciated without any experience or training. It's fun and people who know little or nothing about music can enjoy it. A lot of classical music can also be appreciated like this, but it also has depth in additional dimensions. As one gains musical experience and learns to listen for form & structure, the music has more to reveal to those willing to explore.

There's an analogy to fine literature here. The greatest novels are multi-dimensional and have something to express on multiple levels. Every few years we come back and read them again, and find something new we didn't notice the last time. Good music is like this.

I mostly agree with this, and that's why I try to advocate extreme metal to such music enthusiasts who often completely put it in their mental bin because of the surface image of young men taking themselves either too much or too little seriously.
Like romanticism, you have stuff that, as you described, can be enjoyed on a very simple emotional level, but has further depths to uncover: Beethoven's 9th symphony, for example; some metal's "equivalents" could include Blut Aus Nord's Memoria Vetusta II: Dialogue with the Stars. But there's also some stuff whose depth is inversely proportional to the accessibility: Stravinsky's Rite of Spring is one of the better known examples, taking a few listens of curious morbidity before maybe "clicking"; in the same way it took me a few "brain marathons" to finally get stuff like Gorguts' Obscura, Emperor's Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk or Ved Buens Ende's Written in Waters.

 

[Old Listener]

You see it all the time in audiophile and gear forums. One person lists their test tracks and another person complains about them because they don't include A) a full symphony orchestra B) some kind of minimally produced chamber music or C) some kind of minimally produced "audiophile" recording from a more modern genre like jazz or singer/songwriter and then go on to say that you can't properly evaluate audio gear without their preferred genre of music.

Two out of three of the usual suspects are "classical" so I'd say the shoe fits. Of particular hilarity is when some people, apparently with an entire broom closet up their ass, will refer to anything modern as "popular" whether it's a waning century old genre or an incredibly niche modern sub-sub-genre.

It the "high" vs "low" art distinction mentioned in the video, which is basically people's inability to not universalize their individual tastes to transcendent standards plus classisim, peer pressure, and inertia.

Yeah, I'm definitely talking about audiophiles and not musicians.

People expressing opinions about best tracks for evaluating audio gear is not the same as expressing a preference for classical music in general.

When you resort to insulting language, you destroy your own credibility.

 

[Old Listener]

My motto for the day: Ignore rants. I've added a couple of people to my ignore list.

 

[Fluffy]

My motto for the day: Ignore rants. I've added a couple of people to my ignore list.

Yes, ignoring those who disagree with you will definitely broaden your mind and deepen your knowledge. Good life lesson.

 

[Vasr]

PS This may be where some of the snob reputation comes from.

um...

Pop/rock is simpler and one-dimensional, can be appreciated without any experience or training. It's fun and people who know little or nothing about music can enjoy it. A lot of classical music can also be appreciated like this, but it also has depth in additional dimensions. As one gains musical experience and learns to listen for form & structure, the music has more to reveal to those willing to explore.

The above which are personal opinions expressed as over-generalized facts are exactly where the snob reputation comes from.