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Topping D10s USB DAC and Bridge Review

JohnYang1997

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Hey there, got my d10s and loving it so much^^
So I have a question about Topping's Asio driver. I usuall have my windows sampling rate set to 44.1khz and 32 bit. When I play music either through foobar or Jriver that is also 44.1, it is NOT exclusive. I can still play other audio sources like my browser for example. However, when I play different sampling rates, it does seem to be exclusive and it stops all other sound sources like it should. So does it properly bypass the windows audio stack? I really do not want it to potentially be affected by windows's volume limiter, mixing or other shenanigans windows does, as I read bad things about it. I want everything to be bit perfect. Right now I just switch my windows sampling rate to 176.4 each time I listen to keep my paranoia in check lol
Also ordered the l30 btw and cannot wait for it to arrive!^^
Yes.
 

GeorgeWalk

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Sep 6, 2019
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I'd have been much happier if they'd kept it passive like https://www.argon40.com/argon-neo-raspberry-pi-4-case.html - how often is the fan active, and how loud is it?
The fan is small and I have never heard it. I ran a stress test with a monitoring app. The cpu never got above 60 degrees C pushed to it's limit. I the fan ran at about 60% and I couldn't hear it. There is an app that lets you control at what temp the fan comes on and what percent it runs. I have been running it on my desk next to my keyboard and I can't hear it. The fan is not an issue.
 

wiz2596

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Mar 3, 2020
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Hey there, got my d10s and loving it so much^^
So I have a question about Topping's Asio driver. I usuall have my windows sampling rate set to 44.1khz and 32 bit. When I play music either through foobar or Jriver that is also 44.1, it is NOT exclusive. I can still play other audio sources like my browser for example. However, when I play different sampling rates, it does seem to be exclusive and it stops all other sound sources like it should. So does it properly bypass the windows audio stack? I really do not want it to potentially be affected by windows's volume limiter, mixing or other shenanigans windows does, as I read bad things about it. I want everything to be bit perfect. Right now I just switch my windows sampling rate to 176.4 each time I listen to keep my paranoia in check lol
Also ordered the l30 btw and cannot wait for it to arrive!^^

Try wasapi instead, it's always exclusive for me with no issues :)

1597198044375.png
 
Last edited:

yavormoskov

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Apr 9, 2019
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Atlanta, USA
It is great to see such well performing DACs like 10s and E30 but I have a question. I still use my reliable Khadas Tone board and there is nothing wrong with it but these newer DACs measure slightly better, have dedicated power supplies, look slightly more sophisticated, you got the idea. If you have heard Khadas and Topping 10s/E30 can you make a comparison, please. Is it worth to upgrade, soundwise ? Thank you.
 

Budgeter

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Jan 19, 2019
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It is great to see such well performing DACs like 10s and E30 but I have a question. I still use my reliable Khadas Tone board and there is nothing wrong with it but these newer DACs measure slightly better, have dedicated power supplies, look slightly more sophisticated, you got the idea. If you have heard Khadas and Topping 10s/E30 can you make a comparison, please. Is it worth to upgrade, soundwise ? Thank you.
Sound wise, no. Functionality, to me, yes.
 

rafmart

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Aug 20, 2020
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Hello!

I would like to thank you for this awesome forum.
I am an audio newbie and I want to ask you to clarify this sentence:

If your amplifier requires 1 volt to reach its maximum power, your DAC SINAD is between 107 to 110 dB depending on channel. This means if you have an amplifier with SINAD of 100 dB, the DAC contributions will be insignificant (you want upstream devices to be 10 dB better).

Does it mean that this DAC will be not enough to work with LD MKIII which has SINAD equals only 57 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tle-dot-mk-iii-tube-headphone-amplifier.7903/)
and I should look for amps with SINAD >=110, true?

Thank you!
Rafal
 

Veri

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Hello!

I would like to thank you for this awesome forum.
I am an audio newbie and I want to ask you to clarify this sentence:

If your amplifier requires 1 volt to reach its maximum power, your DAC SINAD is between 107 to 110 dB depending on channel. This means if you have an amplifier with SINAD of 100 dB, the DAC contributions will be insignificant (you want upstream devices to be 10 dB better).

Does it mean that this DAC will be not enough to work with LD MKIII which has SINAD equals only 57 (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tle-dot-mk-iii-tube-headphone-amplifier.7903/)
and I should look for amps with SINAD >=110, true?

Thank you!
Rafal
This DAC is more than enough for the LD MkIII. The post you quote says you'd best have at least 10dB SINAD in reserve, so you don't need a lot to feed the Little Dot....
 

MrC

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A simple question that I don't believe has been asked in this thread yet...

Owning the D10, is it worth swapping out for the D10s?

To put it in context... Currently my D10 feeds a JDS Labs Atom via analog out, the coaxial goes to a small (cheap) DAC that runs my VU meters and the optical goes to an active splitter that then runs off to various other DACs and systems.

Would the D10s provide any improvement in my situation?
 

Toku

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A simple question that I don't believe has been asked in this thread yet...

Owning the D10, is it worth swapping out for the D10s?

To put it in context... Currently my D10 feeds a JDS Labs Atom via analog out, the coaxial goes to a small (cheap) DAC that runs my VU meters and the optical goes to an active splitter that then runs off to various other DACs and systems.

Would the D10s provide any improvement in my situation?
Even if you replace D10 with D10s, you can use it exactly as before. There are no changes or improvements in operability or connection, but you can expect a slight change in the sound quality of JDS Labs Atom.
 

MrC

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Even if you replace D10 with D10s, you can use it exactly as before. There are no changes or improvements in operability or connection, but you can expect a slight change in the sound quality of JDS Labs Atom.

Thanks. I understand that the connections and functionality are the same, I was just wondering about sound improvement if any.

I am guessing there is no real change on the digital outputs, so really only a (marginal?) Improvement on the anolog output.
 

catalogguy

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Does the D10s run off the power from the USB signal input (without needing a wall plug)? Thank you!
 

satread

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Hello,
is anyone experiencing noises/interferences from the D10s when connected to an audio chain via its analog outputs?
I have contacted Topping with respect to my issue and I am currently waiting but I have tried a few scenarios and I have issues with my device.

My previous chain was this:

PC (desktop) with on-board audio card connected via optical cable (previously I had a mainboard with coaxial SPDIF as well) out to a Yamaha AX2. I use the Yamaha as a pre-out for the main speakers driven by a Crown DC300A II.
Other speakers are connected directly to the Yamaha.
Attached to the Yamaha there are more devices, i.e. Teac CD player, AIWA tape deck, Sony PCM-M1 DAT, Sony PCM-M10 digital recorder, Dreambox 920, etc.
Whenever possible they are connected via SPDIF (electrical or optical), otherwise with standard analogic RCA cables.

The scenarios that I have tested are the following ones and I have never had noise issues with it before attaching a D10s to the audio chain:

1.
Crown amp without any input:

Crown (no input, cables disconnected) ---> speakers
no "strange" noise (except home noises/neighboroud in the recorded and attached wav file 1, etc)

2. Topping analog outputs connected directly to Crown amp (RCA cable not fully plugged in the Topping analog outputs):
Desktop PC ---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) NOT FULLY PLUGGED IN ---> Crown amp ---> speakers
DIGITAL NOISE AND RADIO SIGNAL coming out from the speakers! (but the radio signal might be normal with this kind of connection since masses are floating... what is not normal is what I called digital noise)
(I think that this scenario can be ignored because the RCA cables were not correctly plugged in, I just reported it because I had tested it)


3. Topping analog outputs connected directly to Crown amp (RCA cable correctly fully plugged in):

Desktop PC ---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (wav file 3)


4. Topping analog outputs connected to Yamaha AX2 used as preamp to Crown amp:

Desktop PC---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Yamaha AX2 analogic input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (wav file 4)

5. Topping electrical SPDIF output connected to yamaha AX2 used as a preamp to Crown amp:

Desktop PC---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> coaxial SPDIF out ---> Yamaha AX2 coaxial SPDIF input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

NO "strange" noise (except home noises/neighboroud, etc)



The most noisy scenario happens when I connect the Topping to one of the two USB ports of my Vaio notebook (nothing is connected to the other USB port (it has only two USB ports)) and it is scenario 4d:

Vaio NB plugged into the electrical socket---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Yamaha AX2 analogic input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

Very high volume DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (I haven't recorded a wav yet)

I would rule out issues in the Crown and/or in the Yamaha, because they always worked good and they still do if I don't connect Toppings RCA analog outputs' to their inputs.
I would also rule out issues in the PCs because I used two completely different ones (a desktop and a notebook, each with its very own power supply. The desktop is using a Seasonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless power supply) and same is true for the USB and analog RCA cables.
The mainboard of the desktop is a Gigabyte GA-Z270X Gaming 7 and it also has a couple of ports specifically dedicated to attaching a DAC devices. I have tried these ports and also other ones but there was no difference.
I am also using an APC UPS for the Desktop and the notebook.
I also never had power issues in the last 3 months:

1598273062368.png


The attached wavs have been recorded with my PCM-M10 internal microphones at about 30 cm from one of the main speakers.

You can hear a clear difference between file 1 and 3-4. Consider 1 to be the "normal" noise of the room.

The D10s does not have a separate power plug so I can't test if this would change its behaviour...
Anyway I suppose that since the D10s expects its power to be taken from the USB, then doing so should not create issues in any scenario, imho.

Do you have any clue or have experienced something similar?

Luca
 

Attachments

  • wav files.zip
    8.5 MB · Views: 116

Toku

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
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Japan
Hello,
is anyone experiencing noises/interferences from the D10s when connected to an audio chain via its analog outputs?
I have contacted Topping with respect to my issue and I am currently waiting but I have tried a few scenarios and I have issues with my device.

My previous chain was this:

PC (desktop) with on-board audio card connected via optical cable (previously I had a mainboard with coaxial SPDIF as well) out to a Yamaha AX2. I use the Yamaha as a pre-out for the main speakers driven by a Crown DC300A II.
Other speakers are connected directly to the Yamaha.
Attached to the Yamaha there are more devices, i.e. Teac CD player, AIWA tape deck, Sony PCM-M1 DAT, Sony PCM-M10 digital recorder, Dreambox 920, etc.
Whenever possible they are connected via SPDIF (electrical or optical), otherwise with standard analogic RCA cables.

The scenarios that I have tested are the following ones and I have never had noise issues with it before attaching a D10s to the audio chain:

1. Crown amp without any input:

Crown (no input, cables disconnected) ---> speakers
no "strange" noise (except home noises/neighboroud in the recorded and attached wav file 1, etc)

2. Topping analog outputs connected directly to Crown amp (RCA cable not fully plugged in the Topping analog outputs):
Desktop PC ---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) NOT FULLY PLUGGED IN ---> Crown amp ---> speakers
DIGITAL NOISE AND RADIO SIGNAL coming out from the speakers! (but the radio signal might be normal with this kind of connection since masses are floating... what is not normal is what I called digital noise)
(I think that this scenario can be ignored because the RCA cables were not correctly plugged in, I just reported it because I had tested it)


3. Topping analog outputs connected directly to Crown amp (RCA cable correctly fully plugged in):

Desktop PC ---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (wav file 3)


4. Topping analog outputs connected to Yamaha AX2 used as preamp to Crown amp:

Desktop PC---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Yamaha AX2 analogic input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (wav file 4)

5. Topping electrical SPDIF output connected to yamaha AX2 used as a preamp to Crown amp:

Desktop PC---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> coaxial SPDIF out ---> Yamaha AX2 coaxial SPDIF input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

NO "strange" noise (except home noises/neighboroud, etc)



The most noisy scenario happens when I connect the Topping to one of the two USB ports of my Vaio notebook (nothing is connected to the other USB port (it has only two USB ports)) and it is scenario 4d:

Vaio NB plugged into the electrical socket---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Yamaha AX2 analogic input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

Very high volume DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (I haven't recorded a wav yet)

I would rule out issues in the Crown and/or in the Yamaha, because they always worked good and they still do if I don't connect Toppings RCA analog outputs' to their inputs.
I would also rule out issues in the PCs because I used two completely different ones (a desktop and a notebook, each with its very own power supply. The desktop is using a Seasonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless power supply) and same is true for the USB and analog RCA cables.
The mainboard of the desktop is a Gigabyte GA-Z270X Gaming 7 and it also has a couple of ports specifically dedicated to attaching a DAC devices. I have tried these ports and also other ones but there was no difference.
I am also using an APC UPS for the Desktop and the notebook.
I also never had power issues in the last 3 months:

View attachment 79702

The attached wavs have been recorded with my PCM-M10 internal microphones at about 30 cm from one of the main speakers.

You can hear a clear difference between file 1 and 3-4. Consider 1 to be the "normal" noise of the room.

The D10s does not have a separate power plug so I can't test if this would change its behaviour...
Anyway I suppose that since the D10s expects its power to be taken from the USB, then doing so should not create issues in any scenario, imho.

Do you have any clue or have experienced something similar?

Luca
Have you tried replacing the RCA cable that connects to the Topping D10s with another product?
 

satread

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
10
Likes
5
Have you tried replacing the RCA cable that connects to the Topping D10s with another product?
Thanks for the hint but it was the first thing that I tried, second one I changed the input connectors in the Yamaha (I mean that first I connected it to the Cable device, then I tried as "DVD", etc.).
I forgot to say that when I connect the topping to the Yamaha via analog RCA, even if I listen to a different source, I can still hear the noise...
For example, I connected the Topping as Cable device, then from the Yamaha I switched the source device to Satellite device but I could still hear the noise...
 

half_dog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
452
Likes
361
Location
Brazil
Hello,
is anyone experiencing noises/interferences from the D10s when connected to an audio chain via its analog outputs?
I have contacted Topping with respect to my issue and I am currently waiting but I have tried a few scenarios and I have issues with my device.

My previous chain was this:

PC (desktop) with on-board audio card connected via optical cable (previously I had a mainboard with coaxial SPDIF as well) out to a Yamaha AX2. I use the Yamaha as a pre-out for the main speakers driven by a Crown DC300A II.
Other speakers are connected directly to the Yamaha.
Attached to the Yamaha there are more devices, i.e. Teac CD player, AIWA tape deck, Sony PCM-M1 DAT, Sony PCM-M10 digital recorder, Dreambox 920, etc.
Whenever possible they are connected via SPDIF (electrical or optical), otherwise with standard analogic RCA cables.

The scenarios that I have tested are the following ones and I have never had noise issues with it before attaching a D10s to the audio chain:

1. Crown amp without any input:

Crown (no input, cables disconnected) ---> speakers
no "strange" noise (except home noises/neighboroud in the recorded and attached wav file 1, etc)

2. Topping analog outputs connected directly to Crown amp (RCA cable not fully plugged in the Topping analog outputs):
Desktop PC ---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) NOT FULLY PLUGGED IN ---> Crown amp ---> speakers
DIGITAL NOISE AND RADIO SIGNAL coming out from the speakers! (but the radio signal might be normal with this kind of connection since masses are floating... what is not normal is what I called digital noise)
(I think that this scenario can be ignored because the RCA cables were not correctly plugged in, I just reported it because I had tested it)


3. Topping analog outputs connected directly to Crown amp (RCA cable correctly fully plugged in):

Desktop PC ---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (wav file 3)


4. Topping analog outputs connected to Yamaha AX2 used as preamp to Crown amp:

Desktop PC---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Yamaha AX2 analogic input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (wav file 4)

5. Topping electrical SPDIF output connected to yamaha AX2 used as a preamp to Crown amp:

Desktop PC---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> coaxial SPDIF out ---> Yamaha AX2 coaxial SPDIF input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

NO "strange" noise (except home noises/neighboroud, etc)



The most noisy scenario happens when I connect the Topping to one of the two USB ports of my Vaio notebook (nothing is connected to the other USB port (it has only two USB ports)) and it is scenario 4d:

Vaio NB plugged into the electrical socket---> USB cable (I also tried 2 different cables) ---> Topping ---> RCA out analog cables (L+R) ---> Yamaha AX2 analogic input ---> Crown amp ---> speakers

Very high volume DIGITAL NOISE coming out from the speakers (I haven't recorded a wav yet)

I would rule out issues in the Crown and/or in the Yamaha, because they always worked good and they still do if I don't connect Toppings RCA analog outputs' to their inputs.
I would also rule out issues in the PCs because I used two completely different ones (a desktop and a notebook, each with its very own power supply. The desktop is using a Seasonic PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless power supply) and same is true for the USB and analog RCA cables.
The mainboard of the desktop is a Gigabyte GA-Z270X Gaming 7 and it also has a couple of ports specifically dedicated to attaching a DAC devices. I have tried these ports and also other ones but there was no difference.
I am also using an APC UPS for the Desktop and the notebook.
I also never had power issues in the last 3 months:

View attachment 79702

The attached wavs have been recorded with my PCM-M10 internal microphones at about 30 cm from one of the main speakers.

You can hear a clear difference between file 1 and 3-4. Consider 1 to be the "normal" noise of the room.

The D10s does not have a separate power plug so I can't test if this would change its behaviour...
Anyway I suppose that since the D10s expects its power to be taken from the USB, then doing so should not create issues in any scenario, imho.

Do you have any clue or have experienced something similar?

Luca
May I ask what equipaments have their ground pin being used? If both pc (desktop or notebook) and Crown amp are connected to ground maybe it is causing this digital noise. Try to lift pc's ground pin (using a adapter) or use your notebook on battery and only ground the system on Crown amp. That's not the safest approach, but perhaps it solves your problem. If it's not the case, maybe you got a faulty D10s... =/
 
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