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Schiit Magnius Balanced Headphone Amp Review

Veri

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And they are expensive. Iirc 20 bucks each. If you consider the profit margin it along would rise the cost 60-100 bucks. Off market ones have terrible tolerance so far.
A90 uses the premium $20 one? :) And that does explain who many manufacturers are reluctant to adopt it!
 

DSJR

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Please forgive me for saying this, but -95db in second harmonic ONLY, being as bad as some of you have painted it - and on a secondary output too? Most traditional amps would have killed for such a performance not that long ago.

I'm stunned that a US company can make audio gear at these prices frankly, especially with boards and cases made locally rather than shipped in. Owning vintage US made amps (Crown) which I cut my audiophile teeth on back in 1974 and which still give competent performance judging by Ken Rockwell reviews, I'm happy to use US made gear and I regret that it can't seemingly be done too well in the UK currently and at keen prices - Rega come closest and the prices include a modest dealer margin!
 
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JohnYang1997

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A90 uses the premium $20 one? :) And that does explain who many manufacturers are reluctant to adopt it!
It didn't make much sense. It's actually much cheaper. 20 bucks was the price in 2018. It's actually about 4 dollars. So would result in 20 dollar price increase.
 

Veri

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Please forgive me for saying this, but -95db in second harmonic ONLY, being as bad as some of you have painted it - and on a secondary output too? Most traditional amps would have killed for such a performance not that long ago.

The harmonic distortion is not really an audible concern, as you say. However, the IMD distortion in SE, for example 32 ohm here, is more worrisome:
Screen Shot 2020-08-12 at 13.59.46.png


See APx555 Report for Magnius
 

ElNino

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The harmonic distortion is not really an audible concern, as you say. However, the IMD distortion in SE, for example 32 ohm here, is more worrisome:

To put that in context, in SE it has worse IMD performance than Apple's lightning headphone adapter. That's why I think the SE outputs on this device are somewhat nonsensical to include (unless you need tons of power, a lot of gain, or are hooking it up to something that absolutely can't drive headphones).
 

JohnYang1997

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To put that in context, in SE it has worse IMD performance than Apple's lightning headphone adapter. That's why I think the SE outputs on this device are somewhat nonsensical to include (unless you need tons of power, a lot of gain, or are hooking it up to something that absolutely can't drive headphones).
Problem not true as Apple adapter can even output that much with 32ohm load. So...
 

ElNino

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Problem not true as Apple adapter can even output that much with 32ohm load. So...

It can provide more power -- I acknowledged that. But for listeners who don't need the power (i.e., listen at reasonable levels), this thing doesn't improve performance in SE. Within that envelope, it's closer to a tone control than a device that meaningfully improves performance.
 

Xyrium

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My bet it is a random sample pulled of the line after the standard pass/fail testing and merely checked once more before sending it to @amirm .

Apart from sample to sample variation in pot tracking, you'd be hard pressed to expect significant variations in a product like this.

That's what I'm hoping for. I love the black look, I'm honestly glad we're getting past the silver look stage and back to the classic black. I particularly like that anodized black on this product, with the curved fascia.

It's nice to see a US company getting their act together! We all benefit from it.
 

bt3

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Such a shame the Modius has no DSD support. I'd have a Modius / Magnius stack in a heartbeat if so. But as it is, I won't be owning either because of no DSD.

Forty percent of my music library is DSD64, so don't consider components which don't support DSD/DSF in native or DOP.
Shiit made decision no DSD support. It is what it is. Perhaps DSD is too small slice of market?
JDS Labs superior in customer service. JDS Labs jumps through hoops to get your business.
Owner said he would ask his finisher to see about component case in silver. Offered a software update to enable DOP (because the chip already had the capability, but it was not enable by default or mentioned in component specs.)
That's bending-over-backwards service.

Waiting for FiiO K7 Pro. Hope it's not another could-have-been.

Note: More than two weeks and still struggling with Covid-19 shortness of breath. Medical people call us the "long haulers after a month or longer. You don't want to be a long hauler. Be vigilant with the PPE and the hand washing especially if near or in the senior years.
 
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Svperstar

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I just got an SMSL SP200 on Saturday to get more power then I have on my Gilmore Lite mk2 and now I see cheaper alternatives like this or the Topping L30.

Some buyers remorse but I have extreme doubts on my ability to hear the difference. My only issue with the mk2 was not sound quality but that I don't think it had quite enough power. On high gain on the P200 if you turn the knob all the way to the right you will go deaf.
 

Jimbob54

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Amir, I can't help feel that the Jotunheim did not get a fair shake when it was reviewed. Considering the fact that it is a couple of years old now, it appears to have been a great-measuring device as a pure amplifier at the time. It was panned here for its performance with a DAC built-in and because of an unit-specific grounding issue that was presumably resolved later in production.

This is a question for you and @T.M.Noble - any chance of having a current-revision Jot retested as an amp-only? If Schiit ever updates their DAC modules to bring them closer to the level of their standalone DACs, the Jot could still be a good choice for an all-in-one system.

IIRC amir tested the Jot with analog ins- maybe not XLR in. Way better than fed by DAC , shortly outclassed by the obvious things that came not long after (789 etc)

EDIT- pick the bones out of this https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dsd-black-label-dacs-and-headphone-amps.3717/

Edit of the bloody edit. Analog in is tested here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...it-jotunheim-with-ak4490-dac.6431/post-142854
 
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PeteL

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It can provide more power -- I acknowledged that. But for listeners who don't need the power (i.e., listen at reasonable levels), this thing doesn't improve performance in SE. Within that envelope, it's closer to a tone control than a device that meaningfully improves performance.
I disagree with that statement, it can be demonstrated mathematically that with only the few milliwatts that the lightning port can feed the apple adapter, reproduction of the full dynamic range of music can be compromised, even with an easy load, an even with reasonable listening levels. Dongles are great as a DAC, as a headphone amplifier, I'd be happy to be proven wrong and I can be wrong, but in my view it is not up to the task of driving headphones, hence the usefulness of a real amp, even with some compromise on the SNR.
 

PeteL

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what I really don't like is the post on Head-Fi bragging about how easy it was to develop the Magnius. This is a big advertising "no-no" - the downside far outweighs the upside. Although the price is very very competitive for the features, claiming the Magnius was a breeze to bring to market opens Schiit up to all kinds of nit-picking and criticism that is now very well deserved.
The thing is, it's honest, I like that about Schiit. For a customer stand point we may prefer the better measuring efforts of their line but truth be told, their lesser measuring custom designed products brings way more to the science of audio reproduction (if there is such a thing) than those using off the shelf ICs. In all their designs that get a lot of critics here It's all aim at fixing some issues that are for Stoddard and moffats challenges that are worth the effort, in their philosophies, that may on the moment bring limitations regarding some other parameters, but down the line, it is creative designers like that that eventually brings us better products. IT IS easier to use a reference designs and implement it as perfect as it can be. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be celebrated, but it's a lesser victory for sure, then it is the state of this collective pool of science research that eventually leads to better ICs, and better products and we all benefit from this.
 

PuX

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But to allege golden sample given what I said about measurements is going way too far. Woe betide the company that gets found out doing it too.
What did you say about measurements? That Schiit posted their own measurements and they were more or less the same as Amir's? It could even be the same exact unit :)

Schiit is exactly the type of company that would do this. Try searching "Schiit review" on this forum. On multiple occasions their products measured differently across units. Most of their products until 2020 measured like trash.

So doubting them is more than reasonable.

Remember:
1. Schiit's history.
2. Their success is 99% due to marketing, not the product. Modi, Modi 2, Fulla etc. were selling well despite being very bad by all accounts.
3. A company is not your friend, they are just trying to sell you something. What you are saying reads as "Just trust them, lol".

Also if you could point where I suggested spending any money on repeat measurements, that would be great. Most of the stuff measured here gets sent by people who are curious if their DAC/amp performs well, most costs are just shipping. Time spent doing repeat reviews is not wasted no matter how you look at it.

edit: one more thing, Amir has done repeat measurements before so why are you so angry?
 
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Jimbob54

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What did you say about measurements? That Schiit posted their own measurements and they were more or less the same as Amir's? It could even be the same exact unit :)

Schiit is exactly the type of company that would do this. Try searching "Schiit review" on this forum. On multiple occasions their products measured differently across units. Most of their products until 2020 measured like trash.

So doubting them is more than reasonable.

Remember:
1. Schiit's history.
2. Their success is 99% due to marketing, not the product. Modi, Modi 2, Fulla etc. were selling well despite being very bad by all accounts.
3. A company is not your friend, they are just trying to sell you something. What you are saying reads as "Just trust them, lol".

Also if you could point where I suggested spending any money on repeat measurements, that would be great. Most of the stuff measured here gets sent by people who are curious if their DAC/amp performs well, most costs are just shipping. Time spent doing repeat reviews is not wasted no matter how you look at it.

Quite a lot of members here have kit that can measure DACs/amps to varying degrees of accuracy- as do the wider buying public and media. It may be the same unit measured by Schiit and Amir, but if thats wildly better than "standard" retail performance it will get spotted- possibly.

You didnt mention money, I didnt mention money. You suggested re-tests - that either needs to be bought or borrowed i.e- not chosen and sent in by manuf, if thats what you want. (Shipping isnt free btw) . Time is the bigger resource constraint. Amir's time. He can re-test or he can test anew. I know what I would prefer.

If you dont trust Schiit, dont buy Schiit. They clearly are treading a different path than they were a couple of years ago in terms of direction and hopefully quality control

Your tone, for me, went beyond scepticism and into accusatory, which in the spirit of a more open dialogue between Schiit and this forum sounded too sharp to my ears
 

PuX

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Time is the bigger resource constraint. Amir's time. He can re-test or he can test anew. I know what I would prefer.
You know, there's a way to save 100% of the time. Pretty much all audio companies post specs. Read that and you know all you need to know. Because they would never lie, would they?

I would also give priority to measuring new stuff, for example I'd love to see measurements of Dynaudio speakers, Densen/Hegel/Electrocompaniet amps etc.

But doing revisits is definitely useful. For me it's definitely more interesting to see another review of Modius (I might even buy one) than a review of yet another receiver - they never ever measure as well as a decent stereo amp at the same price. Now that is a waste of time in my option. Maybe it's useful for someone else.

My suggestion is very specific to Schiit and any other cases when there's a reason for having doubts. Their bad reputation is well deserved, both in measurements and in teardowns. Not to mention I own and have listened to their products and it just does not sound as good as competition. It may seem that they are moving in a good direction but seeing these results repeated would be nice. By the way, it would be ok if tests were done by someone else - if they get the same result with another unit that actually adds to the credibility of this test.
 

Jimbob54

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You know, there's a way to save 100% of the time. Pretty much all audio companies post specs. Read that and you know all you need to know. Because they would never lie, would they?

I would also give priority to measuring new stuff, for example I'd love to see measurements of Dynaudio speakers, Densen/Hegel/Electrocompaniet amps etc.

But doing revisits is definitely useful. For me it's definitely more interesting to see another review of Modius (I might even buy one) than a review of yet another receiver - they never ever measure as well as a decent stereo amp at the same price. Now that is a waste of time in my option. Maybe it's useful for someone else.

My suggestion is very specific to Schiit and any other cases when there's a reason for having doubts. Their bad reputation is well deserved, both in measurements and in teardowns. Not to mention I own and have listened to their products and it just does not sound as good as competition. It may seem that they are moving in a good direction but seeing these results repeated would be nice. By the way, it would be ok if tests were done by someone else - if they get the same result with another unit that actually adds to the credibility of this test.

I dont disagree with most of that ;). More than aware of past reputations and less than ideal quality too, just hope we are a generation or 2 on from that. Nothing will convince me to spend $$$ on a multibit though! And yes, some products and device types need or deserve a retrospective of sorts.
 

PeteL

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What did you say about measurements? That Schiit posted their own measurements and they were more or less the same as Amir's? It could even be the same exact unit :)

Schiit is exactly the type of company that would do this. Try searching "Schiit review" on this forum. On multiple occasions their products measured differently across units. Most of their products until 2020 measured like trash.

So doubting them is more than reasonable.

Remember:
1. Schiit's history.
2. Their success is 99% due to marketing, not the product. Modi, Modi 2, Fulla etc. were selling well despite being very bad by all accounts.
3. A company is not your friend, they are just trying to sell you something. What you are saying reads as "Just trust them, lol".

Also if you could point where I suggested spending any money on repeat measurements, that would be great. Most of the stuff measured here gets sent by people who are curious if their DAC/amp performs well, most costs are just shipping. Time spent doing repeat reviews is not wasted no matter how you look at it.

edit: one more thing, Amir has done repeat measurements before so why are you so angry?
I sincerely think that on this case you are creating a fuss for an issue that don't exist. This type of design, the components used, the type of manufacturing processes for this type of design, leaves very little room for large unit to unit differences, At the extreme most they could do if they had the bad intentions you seem to give them, would have been to cherry pick the volume pot... Now you noted difference in units in the past, It's absolutely not the case you imply here, If they had problematic design choices, decided to fix it, getting it remeasured and offer service for their clients that had problematic stuff, Kudos to them, it's not about hiding anything, it's about making it right.
For your second point, you couldn't be more wrong. Schiit simply almost don't do marketing, their success is because they are pretty much the only company, except some very small players that can compete with the pricing of manufacturing in Asia. By cutting the middle man yes but also so much more thinking has to go to keep those price that low, and yeah, in the past there has been some hit and miss but all of them are under very stripped down BOM cost, simplified to the max and all parts evaluated to the penny, you can't imagine how it is ballsy to offer this for 2 Cs, that's impressive and the reason for their success, along with the speed at which they can create new products with limited ressources
 
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