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FiiO E10K suitable for Hifiman Sundara?

Lech

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Hi y'all,

So, I've ordered a pair of Hifiman Sundara and I need something suitable to drive them from my desktop computer. I currently have a Steinberg UR22 interface and the headphone output is pretty terrible.

I've been looking at reviews for the FiiO E10K and it seems like a decent piece:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dslabs-odac-rev-b-compared-to-fiio-e10k.2068/

As I understand it the noise and distortion are low enough that it should be inaudible, but I'm not sure if the linearity results are of any significance. Power, I'm thinking, should be good enough to leave some headroom if it can drive the HD650 to decent volumes (though the Sundaras are not very sensitive...). Price is really good and I also like the "bass boost" which I think could compensate well for the perceived drop off at lower frequencies that the Sundaras have.

However, before placing an order I thought I'd check with you for some input. Would this make a good match?

Also, please feel free to recommend other products - up to, let's say, twice the price. I must mention, however, that many of the Chinese products like Topping are a bit hard do come by here (even when I find sellers that ship them here it may cost 60+ $ for shipping).
 

3125b

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I currently have a Steinberg UR22 interface and the headphone output is pretty terrible.
Well, it lacks power and the output impedance is very high (the impedance doesn't matter with the planar magnetic design as far as frequency resonse changes are concerned, but the lack of output power is a real problem, just ~6mW @37 ohms of the Sundara), but apart from that it's actually not too bad - meaning that the DAC has to be ok and probably better than the one of the E10K.
The best solution would be to buy a good headphone amp and use you interface as the DAC, just connect the amp to the anlog line output. The JDS Atom and Schiit Magni Heresy are available for 99$ and will do a very good job with the Sundara and HD 650 (and pretty much any other normal headphone).
 
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Lech

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Well, it lacks power and the output impedance is very high (the impedance doesn't matter with the planar magnetic design as far as frequency resonse changes are concerned, but the lack of output power is a real problem, just ~6mW @37 ohms of the Sundara), but apart from that it's actually not too bad - meaning that the DAC has to be ok and probably better than the one of the E10K.
The best solution would be to buy a good headphone amp and use you interface as the DAC, just connect the amp to the anlog line output. The JDS Atom and Schiit Magni Heresy are available for 99$ and will do a very good job with the Sundara and HD 650 (and pretty much any other normal headphone).
That's an excellent idea but unfortunately I don't have any available line outputs. The Steinberg UR22 only has two and they're used for my active monitors.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I want as few cables as possible, so a combined AMP/DAC would be preferable. I have so many cables behind my desk I get nightmares just thinking about it. :(
 
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Lech

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After some research I've found that the E10K is probably underpowered for the Sundara. Seems the Sundara är harder to drive than I had thought. K5 Pro seems like a much better choice, though the line out isn't that good.

Read the test here on the Topping DX3 Pro and it looks like an excellent choice. Free shipping from Amazon too. However, estimated delivery 17 Aug - 1 Sep. I don't think I have the patience for that. Do you know any European dealers (I'm in Sweden) that sell Topping?
 
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Lech

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I've just ordered the JDS Labs Atom amplifier. Got the suggestion elsewhere to try it with the line out from my motherboard. Unless it picks up noise or other artifacts it should be pretty decent. I suspect it will be noisy (it's not an ideal environment after all) but hey, why not try it? If I'm not satisfied I think I'll get the Topping D10s as well. Found some French site that sells Topping in Europe and the D10s seems really good. Honestly, I'll probably buy it even if the motherboard line out works fine. Still, it's nice to try different combinations because, well.. then you'll know.
 

3125b

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I've just ordered the JDS Labs Atom amplifier
It's a good amp, I'm happy with mine. You could however just feed it the headphone out from your interface, the high output impedance and low current capability will not matter then. Thats still gonna be better than the onboard sound and probably more convenient since you won't have to switch via software.
However if you are based in Europe, you might as well wait a few days and get the even better Topping L30 from Audiophonics (I assume that is the French site you mean?), that will come out very close in price to importing the Atom.
I've had good luck with Audiophonics, they are trustworthy.
 
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Lech

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It's a good amp, I'm happy with mine. You could however just feed it the headphone out from your interface, the high output impedance and low current capability will not matter then. Thats still gonna be better than the onboard sound and probably more convenient since you won't have to switch via software.
However if you are based in Europe, you might as well wait a few days and get the even better Topping L30 from Audiophonics (I assume that is the French site you mean?), that will come out very close in price to importing the Atom.
I've had good luck with Audiophonics, they are trustworthy.
Oh, didn't think of that but it sounds like a great idea. If the impedance and low current don't matter it should work great (the DAC as far as I know is pretty OK - not great but OK). I'll try that instead. But, how do you set the volume on the headphone out in this case?

Yes, audiophonics is the site I'm referring to. Now I've already placed an order on the JDS Labs Atom - do you think it's worth it to cancel? From what I've gathered the Atom is a seriously good piece of equipment. I mean, I don't want any extra hassle for something my ears won't notice anyway. But if they would, well... that might be worth it.
 

3125b

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But, how do you set the volume on the headphone out in this case?
All the way up, the output voltage should be about 1.43Vrms, a little bit short of the nominal 2V, but should be ok if you turn the amp up a little more.
If it clips audibly, wich it might, the UR22 is not a very competently designed piece of equiptment it seems, turn the output down to 90%, that should fix that.
I don't know what the Atom will cost you in the end, a friend brought mine with him from a trip to the US, so I didn't pay international shipping, taxes or customs. If it's about the same price as the L30 (139€ plus a little bit for shipping), I would choose the L30. The Atom Amp is a solid little unit with very good performance, but the L30 delivers a more useful feature set (for my taste anyway) and even better performance, plus in case anything goes wrong, you might have to ship the Atom back to the US, wich is gonna be expensive, whereas, if you buy from a shop in the EU, you can rely on the dealer for warranty work.
 
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Lech

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All the way up, the output voltage should be about 1.43Vrms, a little bit short of the nominal 2V, but should be ok if you turn the amp up a little more.
If it clips audibly, wich it might, the UR22 is not a very competently designed piece of equiptment it seems, turn the output down to 90%, that should fix that.
I don't know what the Atom will cost you in the end, a friend brought mine with him from a trip to the US, so I didn't pay international shipping, taxes or customs. If it's about the same price as the L30 (139€ plus a little bit for shipping), I would choose the L30. The Atom Amp is a solid little unit with very good performance, but the L30 delivers a more useful feature set (for my taste anyway) and even better performance, plus in case anything goes wrong, you might have to ship the Atom back to the US, wich is gonna be expensive, whereas, if you buy from a shop in the EU, you can rely on the dealer for warranty work.
Thanks, I'll try that!
Looks like the L30 has stellar performance. If JDS Labs wasn't so quick to ship the Atom I would have changed my mind. Now the Atom should arrive tomorrow (perfect timing since the headphones will arrive as well).
 

3125b

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Well, you're gonna be happy with the Atom, it's a good amp without question.
 

jameswilson

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I have a pretty old Fiio "E07k Alpen I", and that thing on medium gain gets to about 45/60 volume steps with the Sundaras before I call it unnecessary to try to get louder. Its pretty good actually.

I think for the price of the E10, there are much better options though, as others have already pointed out.
 

Budgeter

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Well, I don't know if Sundara is much harder to drive than 4xx and my 990 or not or not. In my case, I own both Atom (driven by D10) and E10k, along with 4xx and 990 edition 600 ohm.

For E10k, volume level 3 is enough to make my ear bleed. The same thing happens when Atom reaches 10'o clock. Both are on low gain, e10k's bass boost is off. Window's volume are set at 100.

For certain, they sound a bit different due to the implementation of E10k's bass boost, which affects its frequency range (can be shown in the review article's graph IIRC). However, there is absolutely no noise.

Btw, E10k has perfect channel balance (digital volume), while Atom's has a bit of imbalance (analog volume).

Here is my reference: DRM of a recording by Hans Zimmer.

DR8 -0.34 dB -12.60 dB 11:57 06-Pirates Of The Caribbean Medley Captain Jack Sparrow, One Day, Up Is Down, He’s A Pirate
 

Guetta

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Well, I don't know if Sundara is much harder to drive than 4xx and my 990 or not or not. In my case, I own both Atom (driven by D10) and E10k, along with 4xx and 990 edition 600 ohm.

For E10k, volume level 3 is enough to make my ear bleed. The same thing happens when Atom reaches 10'o clock. Both are on low gain, e10k's bass boost is off. Window's volume are set at 100.

For certain, they sound a bit different due to the implementation of E10k's bass boost, which affects its frequency range (can be shown in the review article's graph IIRC). However, there is absolutely no noise.

Btw, E10k has perfect channel balance (digital volume), while Atom's has a bit of imbalance (analog volume).

Here is my reference: DRM of a recording by Hans Zimmer.

DR8 -0.34 dB -12.60 dB 11:57 06-Pirates Of The Caribbean Medley Captain Jack Sparrow, One Day, Up Is Down, He’s A Pirate
How good is Atom driving 600ohm DT990s?
 

3125b

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Very good.
 

3125b

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With proper 2V input you won't need that for normal listening levels, but of course you have the option if you want to EQ the hell out of it or something.
 

Budgeter

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High gain?
As I showed above, D10 @2Vrms (bit streaming in foobar) + Atom's @10'o clock (low gain) is more than enough for everything that I listen to.
 
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nhatlam96

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Right now I own Fiio E10k, SMSL 10th Sanskrit Mk2 + SMSL SP200. I owned the Aune X1s 10th Anniversary in the past. The Fiio E10k is great for low budget headphones in the 100€ range. For everything above it falls very flat in the soundstage, detail and timbre department. I would go for a Fiio K5 Pro minimum for the Sundara!
 

A Surfer

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I agree, I owned an E10K, probably still do, but I did not find the sound quality particularly noteworthy and that was using nice headphones that were not demanding loads, although they were dynamics so as loads with music playing I am sure that the driveability varied in actual fact. Regardless, I can't say that I found the E10K to really be worth it for critical listening/enjoyment. YRMV.
 
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