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Topping A90 Headphone Amplifier Review

dixter

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This could very well be true and a perfect solution, but my M15 is not in hand at this time to try. Loaned out. Was hoping to have a desk top set up that simply out performed it and the dac would be shared with the stereo system.
I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new but its going to be hard to beat the M15 with a desk top setup... the M11Pro and M15 are both some serious playback DAPs...
 

Rix403

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I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new but its going to be hard to beat the M15 with a desk top setup... the M11Pro and M15 are both some serious playback DAPs...

I didn’t know that. I figured with a dap you’re paying for portability, not peak performance.
 

Veri

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I didn’t know that. I figured with a dap you’re paying for portability, not peak performance.
Well ASR has not yet independently reviewed M11/M15 so I hope it's more like their older products and less like the Q5S...
 

frogmeat69

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I have an original FiiO X1, and an X5 3rd gen, I should ask if @amirm would like to measure them. Got an X5 2nd gen, but it doesn't charge anymore, the USB port is messed up, :(.
 

hmscott

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Update: The A90 / D90 MQA RCA interconnect noise problems I (as well as others) have been experiencing was cured for my setup with a moderately priced cable swap - new RCA, XLR, and USB cables, and now I can use my RCA A90 to D90 MQA interconnect at the same time as the XLR interconnect.

Rather than repeat the posts of the D90 thread, please check out this post for the details:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/post-475832
 

hmscott

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Hey ASR, question with the a90. Long time lurker/learner, but now I’m head scratching a bit.
A90 arrived and I found it isn’t performing on my Focal Stellia as well as my M15 dap. There is bass missing in comparison and less ‘slam’.

That said, the desktop set up is using a PS Audio NuWave DSD dac. I know this dac isn’t favoured here, but could it be the culprit vs. a dap with the new AK4499 chip?

My only other guess is since the Stellia is low impedance, perhaps the M15 has a higher current that opens up the bass on the headphone better.

Setup is New MacBook > USB > PS Audio > short RCA > Topping > Balanced to Stellia.

Thanks,
Have you tried replacing the PS Audio DAC with a different DAC and/or using XLR cables instead of RCA cables between the DAC and A90?
I have not tried those yet. Wasn't sure if using XLRs or changing the DAC would be the fix to what I'm experiencing. Just don't want to run out and spend money unnecessarily. I don't have a lot of gear. Just the basics from a stereo system and recently trying out headphones. The dac is borrowed from my stereo. Felt someone here may know where to point the finger, like the dac, rca, M15 having a dsp or colored amp, or maybe there is a difference in the current of the two amps to open the bass & sub-bass of the Stellia. A90 sounds wonderfully clean, though.
You might try to hook up the M15 to the A90 via the output jacks of the M15... my choice would be M15 4.4 balanced into a XLR to the A90... for desk top use you would be using the A90 for the Amp while on desktop and not stressing the M15 amps (they can get pretty warm) and then of course you just unplug the M15 for portable use... the A90 in that case would mirror the M15 sound output...
This could very well be true and a perfect solution, but my M15 is not in hand at this time to try. Loaned out. Was hoping to have a desk top set up that simply out performed it and the dac would be shared with the stereo system.
The difference in "slam" you are hearing is that the M15 has an "over the ear headphone" mode - or "high current" mode that delivers that slam. You aren't going to get that same M15 "slam" sound out of the A90 because the M15's difference is in it's onboard power / bass boosted headphone amplifier - it is not from the M15 DAC, so changing your DAC won't find the M15 "over the ear headphone" mode sound.

I have both the M15 and A90 as well, and really enjoy both - the A90 / D90 MQA more so now that I have gotten rid of most of the noise problems between the A90 / D90 MQA / PC with cabling changes.

For me the cable changes I made dropped the noise floor so much I am hearing things in the sound stage from right to left without gaps and the sound has become very much more revealing. The bass "slam" has improved too, and I would say I'm much happier with the A90 / D90 MQA sound now than I was before the re-cabling.

Now I wouldn't say that I like the M15 sound better overall than the A90 / D90 MQA, but before the re-cabling it did sound that way to me with some headphones on some material. It's not that the A90 / D90 MQA sounds bad, it's that I enjoyed listening to the M15 sound - and on some headphones and material I preferred it.

On the road to trying to get that M15 "slam" out of the A90 / D90 MQA - I've found I can vary the sound characteristics of the A90 a bit by changing the Gain from L, to M, to H by progressively reducing the drive power from the D90 - using D90 PRE mode (variable output) instead of D90 DAC mode (fixed at 100% output). I vary the D90 output from -3.0dB to -30.0dB, and depending on the material the A90 output can be thinner or thicker and adjusted to taste. I also like to use the D90 remote control for volume adjustment.

My thought was that running the A90 in H Gain with less drive from the source - to match the dB output - may help the A90 gain some more "slam", I'm still playing with this endeavor. It was not enough to get the full effect of the M15 "slam", but that tuning was all done before yesterday's re-cabling, so I'm going to have to re-visit this tuning later.

@burma - I hope that detail helps.

I haven't tried feeding the audio output of the M15 into the A90, so I can't say whether we can capture some elements of that M15 "slam" through to the A90. Daisy chaining multiple AMP's, powering up the M15 when it could be resting, doesn't appeal to me personally. And, I am even more happy now with the A90 / D90 MQA sound after the re-cabling, so for me I am happy to enjoy both the M15 and A90 / D90 MQA systems separately.

Please let us know how you work out improving the A90 sound to more closely match the M15 sound, I'd like to know what cabling you use - maybe I'll give it a try - you never know it might be nice. :)
 
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Rix403

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The difference in "slam" you are hearing is that the M15 has an "over the ear headphone" mode - or "high current" mode that delivers that slam. You aren't going to get that same M15 "slam" sound out of the A90 because the M15's difference is in it's onboard power / bass boosted headphone amplifier - it is not from the M15 DAC, so changing your DAC won't find the M15 "over the ear headphone" mode sound.

I have both the M15 and A90 as well, and really enjoy both - the A90 / D90 MQA more so now that I have gotten rid of most of the noise problems between the A90 / D90 MQA / PC with cabling changes.

For me the cable changes I made dropped the noise floor so much I am hearing things in the sound stage from right to left without gaps and the sound has become very much more revealing. The bass "slam" has improved too, and I would say I'm much happier with the A90 / D90 MQA sound now than I was before the re-cabling.

Now I wouldn't say that I like the M15 sound better overall than the A90 / D90 MQA, but before the re-cabling it did sound that way to me with some headphones on some material. It's not that the A90 / D90 MQA sounds bad, it's that I enjoyed listening to the M15 sound - and on some headphones and material I preferred it.

On the road to trying to get that M15 "slam" out of the A90 / D90 MQA - I've found I can vary the sound characteristics of the A90 a bit by changing the Gain from L, to M, to H by progressively reducing the drive power from the D90 - using D90 PRE mode (variable output) instead of D90 DAC mode (fixed at 100% output). I vary the D90 output from -3.0dB to -30.0dB, and depending on the material the A90 output can be thinner or thicker and adjusted to taste. I also like to use the D90 remote control for volume adjustment.

My thought was that running the A90 in H Gain with less drive from the source - to match the dB output - may help the A90 gain some more "slam", I'm still playing with this endeavor. It was not enough to get the full effect of the M15 "slam", but that tuning was all done before yesterday's re-cabling, so I'm going to have to re-visit this tuning later.

@burma - I hope that detail helps.

I haven't tried feeding the audio output of the M15 into the A90, so I can't say whether we can capture some elements of that M15 "slam" through to the A90. Daisy chaining multiple AMP's, powering up the M15 when it could be resting, doesn't appeal to me personally. And, I am even more happy now with the A90 / D90 MQA sound after the re-cabling, so for me I am happy to enjoy both the M15 and A90 / D90 MQA systems separately.

Please let us know how you work out improving the A90 sound to more closely match the M15 sound, I'd like to know what cabling you use - maybe I'll give it a try - you never know it might be nice. :)

Thank you very much for going through everything between the stack and the M15. A bit eye opening for me where I started with daps and wasn’t sure what to expect of seperates.

I also found myself playing with the gain settings a bit, but I don’t have the ability to augment my NuWave dac. I agree the amp is great and is simply different. Its portrayal of classical sounds a lot nicer and easier to my ears. Acoustic, too. The M15 has the ability to toss sub bass that literally pushes the Stellia’s away from my head, so you can feel a drum strike. I can also play metal due to it lol. I’ll play a bit with the A90 to see if I can get that bass / ‘slam’ through dsp or something, but my guess is I’ll need to find a higher current amplifier to match with these headphones. Perhaps I’ll change the dac as well to get the detail refinement.
 

hmscott

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Thank you very much for going through everything between the stack and the M15. A bit eye opening for me where I started with daps and wasn’t sure what to expect of seperates.

I also found myself playing with the gain settings a bit, but I don’t have the ability to augment my NuWave dac. I agree the amp is great and is simply different. Its portrayal of classical sounds a lot nicer and easier to my ears. Acoustic, too. The M15 has the ability to toss sub bass that literally pushes the Stellia’s away from my head, so you can feel a drum strike. I can also play metal due to it lol. I’ll play a bit with the A90 to see if I can get that bass / ‘slam’ through dsp or something, but my guess is I’ll need to find a higher current amplifier to match with these headphones. Perhaps I’ll change the dac as well to get the detail refinement.
The NuWave PS Audio DAC should be fine - within the range of "all dacs sound alike" ;)

It's the audio amplifier stage that gives the character of the sound, along with the matching of the output stage of that DAC with the A90 input stage. You can experiment with cables, but given my recent joy from the medium range priced World's Best Cables + Mogami 2534 Quad conductor XLR + Mogami 2534 RCA, you could try a set of those between the NuWave and the A90.

If they work as well on your NuWave + A90 as on my D90 MQA + A90 you'll gain a greatly lower noise floor allowing more details and a more defined and wider soundstage to emerge.

If you have a USB cable you like you could add Ferrite Core's to either end to reduce EMI / RFI as well. I don't have any specific recommendations I have tried recently - it's been years since I've bought them to reduce RF interference. But, there are a lot of inexpensive choices on Amazon.

The Tripp Lite Ferrite Core USB cable for $7.95 I linked is probably a good start as far as price and I have seen it has good noise rejection results at a very inexpensive cost.

The reason I am suggesting new cables even though you haven't complained about noise is that I didn't have "audible" noise using the XLR interconnect but the A90 / D90 did have less detail as compared to the M15 on the same source material - as you have noticed too, and now with the noise floor brought down so low - the spaces between are very dark and silent and a greater detail level has been revealed between the D90 MQA + A90.

New cables are a lot cheaper than a new DAC, or a new AMP. That's why I decided to search for the best affordable noise reduction in cable design and material. I've other wire to try as well, but Mogami has been around a long time, WBC has a good reputation for build quality using different cable source materials. Mogami built Mogami cables are a bit too expensive, and fortunately the less expensive WBC built cables using the same components work great.

When I find better performing noise wires cables and interference reduction solutions - I've still got a bit of hum at 75% volume on H Gain + a vanishingly small in comparison GPU buzz when I load the GPU - I'll update here.

There's lots of DAC's and AMP's out there, but I decided to work with the A90 / D90 MQA and get the best out of them before moving on.
 
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Rix403

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The NuWave PS Audio DAC should be fine - within the range of "all dacs sound alike" ;)

It's the audio amplifier stage that gives the character of the sound, along with the matching of the output stage of that DAC with the A90 input stage. You can experiment with cables, but given my recent joy from the medium range priced World's Best Cables + Mogami 2534 Quad conductor XLR + Mogami 2534 RCA, you could try a set of those between the NuWave and the A90.

If they work as well on your NuWave + A90 as on my D90 MQA + A90 you'll gain a greatly lower noise floor allowing more details and a more defined and wider soundstage to emerge.

If you have a USB cable you like you could add Ferrite Core's to either end to reduce EMI / RFI as well. I don't have any specific recommendations I have tried recently - it's been years since I've bought them to reduce RF interference. But, there are a lot of inexpensive choices on Amazon.

The Tripp Lite Ferrite Core USB cable for $7.95 I linked is probably a good start as far as price and I have seen it has good noise rejection results at a very inexpensive cost.

The reason I am suggesting new cables even though you haven't complained about noise is that I didn't have "audible" noise using the XLR interconnect but the A90 / D90 did have less detail as compared to the M15 on the same source material - as you have noticed too, and now with the noise floor brought down so low - the spaces between are very dark and silent and a greater detail level has been revealed between the D90 MQA + A90.

New cables are a lot cheaper than a new DAC, or a new AMP. That's why I decided to search for the best affordable noise reduction in cable design and material. I've other wire to try as well, but Mogami has been around a long time, WBC has a good reputation for build quality using different cable source materials. Mogami built Mogami cables are a bit too expensive, and fortunately the less expensive WBC built cables using the same components work great.

When I find better performing noise wires cables and interference reduction solutions - I've still got a bit of hum at 75% volume on H Gain + a vanishingly small in comparison GPU buzz when I load the GPU - I'll update here.

There's lots of DAC's and AMP's out there, but I decided to work with the A90 / D90 MQA and get the best out of them before moving on.

This is interesting. I would not have thought cables would have such an impact and what you’re saying about noise floor vs. detail makes sense to me. Good you found a way to get more from the stack. I’ll test out the cables a bit to see what happens. I’m happy to flip dacs because it’s shared with my stereo system. 2 birds, 1 stone. I also bought the NuWave dac before this forum helped inform my future decisions. The only time I heard noise is I plugged my mac’s powerbrick right under the A90 and it picked up the noise. Removing the brick from proximity was the fix.

Btw, sorry for taking over the thread a bit ASR, but hopefully it helps a few readers :cool: There’s a possibility I’m a bass head (but clean, detailed bass head) because that doom soundtrack...
 

BWPhil

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It's exactly the same as headphone out. It's wired from headphone out with extra 20ohm resistor.
Hi John, if I use the A90 only as a headphone amp, can the XLR outputs of the A90 be used as fixed line level to provide the DAC signal to my system preamp? Or I need XLR splitter to split the DAC output to A90 and to my system preamp?
 

Versale

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Long time lurker and first time poster here.

Got my A90 a few days ago and I've done some tests myself.
I feed my audio from PC using USB connected to USB2.0 to my RME ADI2DAC, tests was done using RCA and XLR to the A90, driving a pair of Hifiman Arya using the 4.4mm pentaconn, pre amping through RCA to my Yamaha WXA 50 which powers my pair of Klipsch RP650M.

Using the RCA connections to the A90, the noise is non existent at low gain on either the headphones or the speakers at any volume. At mid gain I can start hearing noises with the dial past 1 clock in a dead quiet room with my hands covering the outer sides of the Arya, past 3 clock without covering the outer sides. Can't hear anything at my normal sitting distance of around 1.5 meters from both speakers at mid gain. High gain... well it's just distortion city, even at volume 0, on both headphones and speakers. Cables didn't matter, I tried all my cables from 150 bucks a pair RCA to the cheapest ones that you find in your non audiophile cousin's AV receivers. Though the noise was just slightly less through the high end cables than the cheapest ones, but not by much.

Swapping the RCA for XLR then, all the noises are gone, just dead silence at any gain level at any volume level. I planned to use it with the XLR connection anyway so the RCA noise isn't an issue to me, I thought the RME wasn't earthed since it has an external power supply but it still caused noises through RCA?

Anyway, I'm very happy with the A90, it's heaps better than the built in amp of the RME ADI2DAC, slightly more transparency and seperation, wider soundstage, more slam and speed and the biggest improvement is in dynamics. So good job to John and Topping. Though hopefully in the future the earth problem could be resolved so even ppl using vast different equipments using RCAs can enjoy this amazing amplifier without too much hassle.

Here is a picture of my setup, the stack is beautiful. I probably should put some spacers inbetween the ADI2 and the A90 for better heat dissipation.

20200807_075212.jpg
 
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Flextreme

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Long time lurker and first time poster here.

Got my A90 a few days ago and I've done some tests myself.
I feed my audio from PC using USB connected to USB2.0 to my RME ADI2DAC, tests was done using RCA and XLR to the A90, driving a pair of Hifiman Arya using the 4.4mm pentaconn, pre amping through RCA to my Yamaha WXA 50 which powers my pair of Klipsch RP650M.

Using the RCA connections to the A90, the noise is non existent at low gain on either the headphones or the speakers at any volume. At mid gain I can start hearing noises with the dial past 1 clock in a dead quiet room with my hands covering the outer sides of the Arya, past 3 clock without covering the outer sides. Can't hear anything at my normal sitting distance of around 1.5 meters from both speakers at mid gain. High gain... well it's just distortion city, even at volume 0, on both headphones and speakers. Cables didn't matter, I tried all my cables from 150 bucks a pair RCA to the cheapest ones that you find in your non audiophile cousin's AV receivers. Though the noise was just slightly less through the high end cables than the cheapest ones, but not by much.

Swapping the RCA for XLR then, all the noises are gone, just dead silence at any gain level at any volume level. I planned to use it with the XLR connection anyway so the RCA noise isn't an issue to me, I thought the RME wasn't earthed since it has an external power supply but it still caused noises through RCA?

Anyway, I'm very happy with the A90, it's heaps better than the built in amp of the RME ADI2DAC, slightly more transparency and seperation, wider soundstage, more slam and speed and the biggest improvement is in dynamics. So good job to John and Topping. Though hopefully in the future the earth problem could be resolved so even ppl using vast different equipments using RCAs can enjoy this amazing amplifier without too much hassle.

Here is a picture of my setup, the stack is beautiful. I probably should put some spacers inbetween the ADI2 and the A90 for better heat dissipation.

View attachment 76999

As an another Arya/A90 owner, congratulations! The Arya responds and scales so well to the a90, the difference is anything but subtle. My other headphones do not improve as much the Arya does on the a90. I came from the lovely SMSL Sp200, but the A90 took the Arya straight into Audio Nirvana for me.

Is that a GU.Craftsmans balanced cable? I have one, it is rather impressive.

You are listening at med gain? To my ears and subjective experience, the Arya have even better transients, bass definition and PRAT on high gain. Arya seems to love power 'potential'.

BTW, i changed from professional grade XLR cable to this cheap chi-fi fake ass ODIN as an experiment, (which just became 50% cheaper than what I payed, it is now only 40$) . My point is, I never expected such big positive difference, but the ARYA/A90 is so revealing.
 

Versale

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ADI-2 + A90 look great together! Congrats on the very nice set-up.
Thank you! This is pretty much what I will settle on until any of the equipments breaks. I don't see myself spending much more to get only marginal improvement.

As an another Arya/A90 owner, congratulations! The Arya responds and scales so well to the a90, the difference is anything but subtle. My other headphones do not improve as much the Arya does on the a90. I came from the lovely SMSL Sp200, but the A90 took the Arya straight into Audio Nirvana for me.

Is that a GU.Craftsmans balanced cable? I have one, it is rather impressive.

You are listening at med gain? To my ears and subjective experience, the Arya have even better transients, bass definition and PRAT on high gain. Arya seems to love power 'potential'.

BTW, i changed from professional grade XLR cable to this cheap chi-fi fake ass ODIN as an experiment, (which just became 50% cheaper than what I payed, it is now only 40$) . My point is, I never expected such big positive difference, but the ARYA/A90 is so revealing.
Yes, I agree. I did not think that the A90 would improve the sound of the Arya by so much because I did AB test it at my local audio store using the Arya on my ADI2 vs a Violectric HPA V280 and I did not hear that much difference to justify a 1.7k purchase. This sub 500 A90 is less than 1/3 the price and sounds and looks better, just amazing.

You have keen eyes, yes it is indeed a pure silver 4.4 pentaconn balanced cable from GU.Craftsman. His cables are magnificent work, the weaves are so pretty to look at and the connectors are the best I used to far, they have 0 give and hold tight.

Since I also use the preamp of the A90. I just set it to med gain cuz it's the perfect gain for my WXA-50. I should try out the high gain but I'll have to lower the Ref Level on the ADI-2 otherwise it'll be insanely loud, the A90 is a powerful monster.
 

Ddd

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Just wondering. @JohnYang1997

The A90 with XLR input 4V from D90 for example,
Using Pre-Amp mode in A90

At which position or "time" of the volume knob,
it gives Pre-Amp out of the exact 4V signal equal to the input at Mid Gain?

Since the pre-amp out signal is affected by the Gain of 6dB (2.0x) (8V) as well

:)
 

JohnYang1997

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Just wondering. @JohnYang1997

The A90 with XLR input 4V from D90 for example,
Using Pre-Amp mode in A90

At which position or "time" of the volume knob,
it gives Pre-Amp out of the exact 4V signal equal to the input at Mid Gain?

Since the pre-amp out signal is affected by the Gain of 6dB (2.0x) (8V) as well

:)
Just use the knob for taste. Life is too short to place exact volume position. ;)
I would recommend 2-3 o'clock, somewhere around there.
 

azoazo

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I am actually convinced to try Purifi EVAL1 as a power amplifier after A90. The Purifi's input buffer can be bypassed, which reduces input impedance from 10.2kohm to 2.2kohm. Would this be too low for A90 to drive? A90's line-out has a 20ohm resistor, right? What would be A90's proper gain setting then? With input buffer bypassed, the Purifi needs about 10v input swing voltage to deliver its full power.
 

JohnYang1997

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I am actually convinced to try Purifi EVAL1 as a power amplifier after A90. The Purifi's input buffer can be bypassed, which reduces input impedance from 10.2kohm to 2.2kohm. Would this be too low for A90 to drive? A90's line-out has a 20ohm resistor, right? What would be A90's proper gain setting then? With input buffer bypassed, the Purifi needs about 10v input swing voltage to deliver its full power.
No issue. A90 pre out can drive down to 50ohm without any distortion. Use gain for taste. I don't think you'd play at max volume all the time so I recommend using mid gain. Use high gain only when it's not loud enough at max volume.
 

Ntrax

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I also just received the A90 today. Coming from the THX AAA 789, after seeing/reading a couple of rave reviews (including Amir's here), I was expecting an upgrade in audio quality. I've been A/B ing the 2 since earlier today and feel so far the THX 789 may be a little brighter.

Interested in anyone else's comparisons.
You are not wrong at all. Indeed THX brighter or A90 warmer.
 
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