recommendation for sub $1K system

[Adam Bernau]

I would strongly recommend to spent most of the budget for the best speakers you can, active, with DSP
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B06VTFL9Q6/ref=dp_olp_afts?ie=UTF8&condition=all
and spent 100 usd on some DAC with preamp ability, like this one SGD 1
http://www.soncoz.com/#/

 

[BillG]

It's quite common here for people to encourage allocating the lion's share of the budget to speakers. Why not do that in this case?

I don't care about the status quo, and that's an idiotic way to purchase anything: Cost is rarely an indication of quality, particularly in higher end audio. I'd suggest you spend a little effort reading the performance analysis of my recommendation, instead of pestering me as if I owe you an explanation.

 

[BillG]

The "cheap" speakers recommended here perform very well, and their "limitations," mostly related to dynamics and ability to get loud, are mitigated by the fact that they will be used in an apartment

That's not the case with the Infinity Reference 162s. They're originally ~$500USD, by the way. Their ability to get loud and maintain dynamics isn't an issue here.

 

[BillG]

I would strongly recommend to spent most of the budget for the best speakers you can, active, with DSP
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B06VTFL9Q6/ref=dp_olp_afts?ie=UTF8&condition=all

They're $500USD each, designed for near field listening, and have a lack in bass response compared to the Infinity Reference 162s.

 

[BillG]

spent 100 usd on some DAC with preamp ability, like this one SGD 1
http://www.soncoz.com/#/

That DAC is ~$450USD.

So with the monitors, that's 2 x $500 + $450 = $1,450USD. For less bass response, no ready to use streaming support out of the box, and rather limited upgrade options - I'm not seeing an upside here.

You'll probably point out the monitor's onboard DSP as an advantage, but it's a minor one that can also be accomplished by whatever computer he's going to use with the system. The Yamaha WXA-50 has rudimentary onboard DSP as well.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

I second the JBL 308p, JBL 310s suggestion. It's really hard to beat it on price/performance.

Add minidsp or something else to fix your room mode at the listening position. It's going to be really BIG because the speakers are at one end, and you're at the opposite end of the room. Use a calibrated mic, $100.

Don't worry about spending money on DAC's. The $15 Apple USB-C dongle is good enough. Maybe upgrade to a Topping in the future.

Edit: I had this set up for a year. It was great. Only thing different now is the 708P's in place of the 308s. 708P's play louder

 

[BillG]

I second the JBL 308p, JBL 310s suggestion. It's really hard to beat it on price/performance

Since I'm feeling competitive, albeit in a friendly way, let's see what I can do here...

Here's the combination you suggested at $900USD:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1390055-REG/jbl_308p_mkii_studio.html

My suggestion was $689USD, without a sub. However, the Infinity Reference Sub R12 is frequently on sale at ~$160USD. So with this we're now at $849USD, with a sub, for my recommendation.

While the JBL 310 can supposedly play 2Hz lower at 27Hz as opposed to the 29Hz of the Sub R12, is the $50 difference in price worth it when we consider your recommendation doesn't support streaming out of the box? Also, the Sub R12 is the more powerful of the two at 300 watts versus the 200 watts of the JBL 310, and some users report a problem with hissing on the JBL 308p. I've seen no reports of that issue with the Yamaha WXA-50 amplifier and Infinity speaker combination.

I still feel like I'm winning here on the price, performance, and features front, although I'll admit it's close...

 

[Jinjuku]

Since I'm feeling competitive, albeit in a friendly way, let's see what I can do here...

Here's the combination you suggested at $900USD:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1390055-REG/jbl_308p_mkii_studio.html

My suggestion was $689USD, without a sub. However, the Infinity Reference Sub R12 is frequently on sale at ~$160USD. So with this we're now at $849USD, with a sub, for my recommendation.

While the JBL 310 can supposedly play 2Hz lower at 27Hz as opposed to the 29Hz of the Sub R12, is the $50 difference in price worth it when we consider your recommendation doesn't support streaming out of the box? Also, the Sub R12 is the more powerful of the two at 300 watts versus the 200 watts of the JBL 310, and some users report a problem with hissing on the JBL 308p. I've seen no reports of that issue with the Yamaha WXA-50 amplifier and Infinity speaker combination.

I still feel like I'm winning here on the price, performance, and features front, although I'll admit it's close...

I doubt the 162's are competitive at all with the 308p.

 

[BillG]

I doubt the 162's are competitive at all with the 308p.

I don't deal in opinions. So unless you can show me some evidence of the contrary, with the sub I suggested, I'm going to ignore yours...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ics-inside-active-monitors.12589/#post-374128

 

[BillG]

I don't deal in opinions. So unless you can show me some evidence of the contrary, with the sub I suggested, I'm going to ignore yours...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ics-inside-active-monitors.12589/#post-374128

http://noaudiophile.com/JBL_LSR308/

With the JBL one is stuck with their amplifier.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...infinity-r162-bookshelf-speaker-review.12333/

With the Infinity Reference 162s one can upgrade the amp whenever.

Still winning...

 

[thefsb]

I don't care about the status quo, and that's an idiotic way to purchase anything: Cost is rarely an indication of quality, particularly in higher end audio. I'd suggest you spend a little effort reading the performance analysis of my recommendation, instead of pestering me as if I owe you an explanation.

I asked a simple question because I was curious. I said nothing about what you owe me. Was it impolite or insulting?

If asking questions on a forum is pestering and demanding then I should stop doing it.

 

[LeftCoastTim]

Since I'm feeling competitive, albeit in a friendly way, let's see what I can do here...

Here's the combination you suggested at $900USD:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1390055-REG/jbl_308p_mkii_studio.html

My suggestion was $689USD, without a sub. However, the Infinity Reference Sub R12 is frequently on sale at ~$160USD. So with this we're now at $849USD, with a sub, for my recommendation.

While the JBL 310 can supposedly play 2Hz lower at 27Hz as opposed to the 29Hz of the Sub R12, is the $50 difference in price worth it when we consider your recommendation doesn't support streaming out of the box? Also, the Sub R12 is the more powerful of the two at 300 watts versus the 200 watts of the JBL 310, and some users report a problem with hissing on the JBL 308p. I've seen no reports of that issue with the Yamaha WXA-50 amplifier and Infinity speaker combination.

I still feel like I'm winning here on the price, performance, and features front, although I'll admit it's close...

JBL 308Ps go on sale too. I got mine (mk 1) for $150 each.

 

[Jmudrick]

JBL 308Ps go on sale too. I got mine (mk 1) for $150 each.

Which would be same price as the better performing Kali LP-6. The hiss mentiined above in relation.to these is almost surely a non issue in non nearfield listening. The 310s is a better match than the Infinity with either given its balanced connection and high pass filter.

 

[Robbo99999]

I second the JBL 308p, JBL 310s suggestion. It's really hard to beat it on price/performance.

Add minidsp or something else to fix your room mode at the listening position. It's going to be really BIG because the speakers are at one end, and you're at the opposite end of the room. Use a calibrated mic, $100.

Don't worry about spending money on DAC's. The $15 Apple USB-C dongle is good enough. Maybe upgrade to a Topping in the future.

Edit: I had this set up for a year. It was great. Only thing different now is the 708P's in place of the 308s. 708P's play louder

This without the sub would be my recommendation, which is basically my setup....he got neighbours I think so sub not such good idea and 308's play low anyway. Actually you only really need the miniDSP if you're hooking up to a TV or something, but if you're only gonna play music from a laptop then use Equaliser APO instead and don't get a miniDSP.

The 308's are pretty big speakers though and he's got a small room, he'll have to check he can handle their visual presence, I got used to mine and now I think they look ok, but they're pretty dominant sat next to the TV and out into the room a little on a couple of stands! Given he's not interested in loud music the only reason to get the 308's is for the extended bass vs the 306 or 305. If he's not that fussed about bass then he would probably get better aesthetic and auditory results by using the smaller 306 or 305 - less room modes and probably better woofer/tweeter integration.

 

[CDMC]

Just my two cents. As you live in an apartment, I would focus on better speakers and leave a subwoofer to add/upgrade once you have a place where you can enjoy its benefits. I would also focus on a used pair of speakers, as $500-700 used will get you $1,000-1,500 speakers that are lightY used. If it were me, I would be hunting down a pair of used Revel M16 or M12 or Dynaudio Excite.

 

[Archsam]

@rhz just wanted to see if you find any of the advices useful?

If you can give us your thoughts on your preferences / needs we can help you further refine your options. This thread should be about what works best for you, and not about other people's idea of what a good $1000 system is.

For example, I also live in a flat and I find my Revel M105 producing more than enough bass in my 3.4m x 4m x 2.7m high living room. In fact I have to turn down the bass control on my Yamaha amp when I listen to music late at night so I don't disturb my partner sleeping next room / my neighbours. If this is your restraint as well, we can start excluding speakers with large woofers, as an example. I might actually recommend you getting a pair of relatively small monitors + a sub because it gives you the option of turning off the sub (and reduce the bass output) when you don't want to disturb others in the evening.

 

[Dzhaughn]

Elac DBR-62, Used Niles SI-275, SMSL Sanskrit mk2 DAC, and a PC with EqualizerAPO

 

[restorer-john]

If I was buying a little starter system at ~US$1000, I certainly wouldn't bother with new. That's for schmucks.

Bargains can be had if you put some effort in.

Pick up a Yamaha AS-300/301/500/501/701 2nd hand. I picked one up recently in perfect condition (with remote) Yamaha AS-300 for AU$25. It's a proper amplifier, not a little toy and it has plenty of real power, perfect channel balance and volume tracking, along with flat FR, low distortion and a heap of useful inputs and features.

My local pawnbroker had a pair of vintage Infinity Reference 50s floorstanding 3 ways (actual US made Infinity with EmitR planar tweeters, not cheap Chinese Harman crap) for $2 which need the mids and woofers re-rolling. Not kidding, I can show you the price tag. No problem, $10 worth of foam, some decent re-rolling skills and you have real speakers for AU$12 pair. Beat that.

(internet pic)

Even those Pioneer bookshelves/floorstanders (21 or 22 series) everyone raves about are cheap on the 2nd hand market. I paid $80 for two bookshelves, two floorstanders and a centre speaker at a garage sale- all unmarked and like new. Not that I'd recommend them- in my opinion they are horrible sounding, but Amir liked them.

That leaves you at least US$900 to burn on a DAC...

 

[CDMC]

If I was buying a little starter system at ~US$1000, I certainly wouldn't bother with new. That's for schmucks.

Bargains can be had if you put some effort in.

Pick up a Yamaha AS-300/301/500/501/701 2nd hand. I picked one up recently in perfect condition (with remote) Yamaha AS-300 for AU$25. It's a proper amplifier, not a little toy and it has plenty of real power, perfect channel balance and volume tracking, along with flat FR, low distortion and a heap of useful inputs and features.

View attachment 76667
My local pawnbroker had a pair of vintage Infinity Reference 50s floorstanding 3 ways (actual US made Infinity with EmitR planar tweeters, not cheap Chinese Harman crap) for $2 which need the mids and woofers re-rolling. Not kidding, I can show you the price tag. No problem, $10 worth of foam, some decent re-rolling skills and you have real speakers for AU$12 pair. Beat that.

(internet pic)
View attachment 76668
Even those Pioneer bookshelves/floorstanders (21 or 22 series) everyone raves about are cheap on the 2nd hand market. I paid $80 for two bookshelves, two floorstanders and a centre speaker at a garage sale- all unmarked and like new. Not that I'd recommend them- in my opinion they are horrible sounding, but Amir liked them.

View attachment 76669

View attachment 76670

That leaves you at least US$900 to burn on a DAC...

I have scored some good deals in my time, but you have just crushed it.

I am also a believer in buying used, but recently have bought new. RME dacs sell for only 15-20% less used and I was able to buy new, with warranty Revel F208s for only 10% more than they go for in the used market.

 

[restorer-john]

I have scored some good deals in my time, but you have just crushed it.

Some of the older vintage deals picked up between the 90s and 2010 were just insane. Getting ridiculous bargains now at yard sales is rare due to the good vintage stuff being disposed of many years ago and the internet (ebay) getting in the way of a stupidly low price.

Here's the Infinities before I'd cleaned them up. Their grilles were fine and after a wash (plastic frames) they were perfect. The cabinets were just grubby and cleaned up like new. Gotta love the sticky tape eh? Note, they had reduced the price from $29 to $2 when they discovered the drivers were rotted. (you can see the $29 price tag underneath)

The bass and mid drivers are IMG. Injection moulded graphite, so are impervious to moisture and when re-rolled they are like new.