CD Player failed.

[A Surfer]

I hear you. Unlike some of my pals my CD collection is not gigantic. Space is not that much of an issue. If I use the computer for audio I tend to use phones anyhow. And I am not that happy with the current offerings. I really miss my old Koss Pro-4AA set which eventually wore out...so I eagerly bought a new set only to discover they had "updated" the transducers and in the process ruined them. The new ones had bass and mids that were crap. I like my HD600's but they are not without warts either.
I have never bought a used CD. Some of the stuff I get is esoteric and not for sale digitally anyhow. Certain chant CD's I own are fairly rare and not streamed. One of my Rammstein CD's has a track that is CD exclusive as well. It does not even show up on my Amazon playlist!

You would rip (extract) all the files from your collection creating your digital library that exactly mirrors your physical CD collection. IF you ever go that route, but clearly you are happy with what you have now so that is all that matters. Enjoy your music and I would suggest the HiFi Man Edition X V2 as a headphone to try. Mind you there are so many fantastic headphone options out there and more to come.

 

[GXAlan]

I don't see how it can. The data is there...or not. A program to extrapolate it will almost certainly color the sound

ALPHA will definitely color the sound. But it is based off the measurements of the change in slope of the curve and apparently accounts for several samples via a buffer. How it takes that data and adds it to the original data is audio-hand waving.

Then, the second processing it does is applying a dynamic digital filter than it applies, not unlike the PMD100 of yesteryear. The hype is that the coloration is pleasant based upon development using Nippon Columbia‘s recordings and knowing how to dynamically switch digital filters on the fly apparently is also a bit of art.

JVC K2HD is similar.
https://www.victorstudio.jp/flair/e/k2hd/k2hd.html
Here you see that they combine analog out from the old Sony PCM recorder in addition to original data source to guestimate how to manipulate the signal. But it is clear that the algorithm works with a specific PCM encoder.

No one knows if the Alpha branding (AL32) in receivers or SACD players is similar to the ALPHA used originally.
Anyway, for the Denon ALPHA gear I sent @amirm, I am predicting a shrugging shoulder panther. By the numbers, it won’t beat the Levinson 360S. But I do think it will reproduce the 16/44 test tones from Alpha marketing brochures better than an Octo Dac8. The problem is that we don’t listen to test tones.

That is images 3 and 5 should be how Alpha processing reproduces those signals, with the consumer grade analog components impacting the measurements. Figures 4 and 6 and probably achievable with modern DACs with the right digital filter selected. ALPHA dynamically picks the filter for the music.
Denon’s final ALPHA demo was to take a Nippon Columbia musical recording and master it at -60dB since music easily dips that low in real content. The claim was that Alpha processing could take that real world content and make it sound better than traditional oversampling or upsampling. It will be interesting to see how ALPHA processing performs under the test bench and when the metric is 16/44 only.

 

[GXAlan]

https://translate.googleusercontent...x.html&usg=ALkJrhj_CDFNfQCIcldMhxXFvMR71lNp3w

Only description of Advanced AL32 Processing Plus found on the latest CD players from Denon.

It does try to color the sound but the part they explain about the red and blue dots shows that it isn’t a simple up sample or smooth. The Denon person says:

Since this is a proprietary technology, I cannot explain it in detail, but from the discrete values of the preceding and following data, we can infer where the analog waveform was when the data at the current coordinates was input, and add or subtract numerical values for the data. And calculate. Denon has that algorithm.

Depending how the 90’s era Denon Alpha product performs, someone may submit the DCD-1600NE for review.

 

[restorer-john]

ALPHA will definitely color the sound. But it is based off the measurements of the change in slope of the curve and apparently accounts for several samples via a buffer. How it takes that data and adds it to the original data is audio-hand waving.

Then, the second processing it does is applying a dynamic digital filter than it applies, not unlike the PMD100 of yesteryear. The hype is that the coloration is pleasant based upon development using Nippon Columbia‘s recordings and knowing how to dynamically switch digital filters on the fly apparently is also a bit of art.

JVC K2HD is similar.
https://www.victorstudio.jp/flair/e/k2hd/k2hd.html
Here you see that they combine analog out from the old Sony PCM recorder in addition to original data source to guestimate how to manipulate the signal. But it is clear that the algorithm works with a specific PCM encoder.

No one knows if the Alpha branding (AL32) in receivers or SACD players is similar to the ALPHA used originally.
Anyway, for the Denon ALPHA gear I sent @amirm, I am predicting a shrugging shoulder panther. By the numbers, it won’t beat the Levinson 360S. But I do think it will reproduce the 16/44 test tones from Alpha marketing brochures better than an Octo Dac8. The problem is that we don’t listen to test tones.

That is images 3 and 5 should be how Alpha processing reproduces those signals, with the consumer grade analog components impacting the measurements. Figures 4 and 6 and probably achievable with modern DACs with the right digital filter selected. ALPHA dynamically picks the filter for the music.
Denon’s final ALPHA demo was to take a Nippon Columbia musical recording and master it at -60dB since music easily dips that low in real content. The claim was that Alpha processing could take that real world content and make it sound better than traditional oversampling or upsampling. It will be interesting to see how ALPHA processing performs under the test bench and when the metric is 16/44 only.

I have the Denon one point recording for Alpha Processors CD...

 

[GXAlan]

I have the Denon one point recording for Alpha Processors CD...

That’s the disc I screenshot and what I sent Amir! Plus the cheat codes to turn on and off ALPHA.

 

[A Surfer]

ALPHA will definitely color the sound. But it is based off the measurements of the change in slope of the curve and apparently accounts for several samples via a buffer. How it takes that data and adds it to the original data is audio-hand waving.

I have no doubt that this can produce pleasant sound generally, but it in no way can do anything to change the reality of brickwalled recordings. The dynamics have already been compressed and you cannot restore what has been lost. The processing may work with the original recording to produce some kind of softening effect, and I am not suggesting that is without merit, but strictly speaking it is no more able to restore dynamics than somebody playing around with equalization attempting to correct things that way. Unless of course I am completely missing your original point which if so you have my apology.

In my experience a bad recording will always be a bad recording. I find even the most celebrated reworkings of the Led Zeppelin catalogue while an improvement still were unable to move the sound quality needle all that far and that is in a similar vein in the sense that if the original recording wasn't able to capture the information attempting to add it in later is certainly going to be quite limited in success.

 

[Pluto]

@GXAlan how can a brickwalled mastering be overcome after the fact?

Send me some material and I'll show you.

 

[A Surfer]

Send me some material and I'll show you.

Doubtful mate, and would you be kind enough to describe what you mean by overcoming the brickwalling? How can you restore lost dynamics? That can ONLY happen with access to the master tracks before final mixing. After that point dynamics are locked in and any adjustment made after the fact will either equally boost or lower all information encoded in the recording. That isn't opinion, that is fact.

 

[Pluto]

That isn't opinion, that is fact.

Then send some material for me to have a go at.

The worst that can happen is that I'm wrong. If your brick-walling is that bad then, yes, it may not be possible to effect any worthwhile improvement. All we can do is try.

But I caution you; if I achieve any success with a short sample and you want more done, my rates are not cheap

 

[raindance]

The Onkyo 7030 is a great player and dirt cheap.

 

[Daverz]

Oh yeah, not d10s. Something with digital in, not digital out. Plenty of cheap, quality choices.

Like a Topping E30. Unless the BD player has a USB out (do any?); then a D10 will work.

 

[cistercian]

The Onkyo 7030 is a great player and dirt cheap.

Shows out of stock...and no longer available on one site.

I figure if I do not like the DAC in the tascam I can always get an external one since the tascam has coax digital
as well as optical digital out. I think the built in one should be fine.

 

[Astrozombie]

Old Player? Stay old and get a Ps1 Though i don't know what they go for now days. I just got the cheapest player with digital out I could find. My PC doesn't have a disc drive and even if i wanted to listen to an album there it makes quite a bit of noise.

Though now i'm having second thoughts about CDs, I just heard somewhere that the download version of an album i recently bought was actually the more dynamic version.

 

[cistercian]

Old Player? Stay old and get a Ps1 Though i don't know what they go for now days. I just got the cheapest player with digital out I could find. My PC doesn't have a disc drive and even if i wanted to listen to an album there it makes quite a bit of noise.

Though now i'm having second thoughts about CDs, I just heard somewhere that the download version of an album i recently bought was actually the more dynamic version.

Do not read any articles about CD format being all you need or comparing it to higher bitrate formats. (CD is enough...there, I said it)
For me...the juice is not worth the squeeze. I am certain some will burst aneurysms hearing that.
I remember the huge controversy when CD format came out and the giant number of analog fans being
disgusted by it. Higher res formats are resurrecting the same arguments. I can't hear the difference between
CD and higher res files assuming exactly the same audio source and any EQ or other modifications.
But I am soon to be 59 so there is that. I think ultra high res files are ideal if you are doing editing or mixing
albums...in principle at least. But for playback? I think (again my opinion) money is better spent on transducers
and the room you put them in, or the best headphones you can get. Until we can achieve direct brain stimulation
I think the room and the speakers (or the headphones) are the limiting factor.

I have been testing headphones BTW and the differences between various ones is remarkable. Much, much easier to discern
than CD vs ultra high res files.

 

[A Surfer]

Despite being fully in the computer audio camp, I completely agree that 16 bits is more than adequate to encode everything that our hearing brain is capable of decoding and perceiving.

 

[mhardy6647]

hmmm... I am playing an 12 inch LP as I type this.

This afternoon, I listened to a 78 on a wind-up, acoustic Brunswick phonograph. It sounded -- pretty darned good, actually.

(internet image of a very similar model)

 

[cistercian]

hmmm... I am playing an 12 inch LP as I type this.

This afternoon, I listened to a 78 on a wind-up, acoustic Brunswick phonograph. It sounded -- pretty darned good, actually.

View attachment 75622
(internet image of a very similar model)

Epic!

 

[paddycrow]

I am a dinosaur as well, I began my journey in the hobby in the late 1960s. I understand your points, but I would like to offer a few thoughts.

First, regarding computers- I have a 2007 Mac that just plain keeps working, especially for digital audio. It isn't good for streaming video, but it connects very well to my other computers on my network. Some computers may fail quickly, but I would not make such a sweeping judgment.

Second, a CD player is essentially a computer transcoding digital audio files from an optical drive. Continuous improvements in the hardware have affected the quality of the playback- especially the DAC.

For me, the primary benefit of ripping CDs to a server has been convenience. With the right interface, I can find whatever I want to hear and add it to the queue without getting out of my listening chair. It was a chore getting all of my old discs ripped and I had to do it twice because I made the mistake of using MP3 format the first time.

Lastly, I will subjectively say I prefer HD formats to 44.1 kHz / 16 bit. The difference is quite a bit less than the jump from MP3 to lossless.

 

[cistercian]

My Tascam is out for delivery so I will let you all know how it sounds. I will be using the analog out to my mixer
and unless the DAC in the player is not good I should be good to go.
I have been checking out DACs from Amirs list just in case I really hate the built in one!

 

[cistercian]

The unit seems well made. Analog output is...poor. Very sharp mid bass and lower bass roll off.
Completely a horror show. I just ordered the RME ADI-2 FS DAC since I wanted an EQ in line just in case.
I ordered it next day.
This should provide the highest specification audio I have ever owned...this DAC beats the pants off the old
Sony player specs.

The sound coming from the analog of the Tascam sounds too bright and thin as so much of the lower range
is comically, epically absent. SO...now it will be a transport. (insert a colorful string of expletives here)

I am so thankful for Amir. Thanks to him, I had a good DAC in mind already.