Making a streamer with Intel Nuc/how

[BillG]

"anything coming from a local drive should render better audio performance than the same files coming over a network..."

Better performance based upon what criteria?

I frequently switch between local playback on a PC into my integrated amplifier via USB, or networked delivery from that PC via WiFi to a Chromecast Audio into the same amp. Other than lacking the facility to more precisely equalize the frequency response (which I can work around, depending upon the server package I use, but haven't bothered to) the performance is identical.

The DACs in my devices don't care where the data is coming from, as long as the corresponding receivers are properly implemented, and neither does anyone else's.

 

[Bliman]

I believe my hard drive is very quiet. I know John Darko has a fancy one with a rubber bumper, but anything coming from a local drive should render better audio performance than the same files coming over a network. The Pro-Ject software gives you 2 options:1 to rescan the whole drive or 2. update. Reindexing is surprisingly fast since is being done by an RPI processor. Fluent enough? Are you referring to the software interface? I think so. Of course Roon is much better, but i don't have any use for multiple endpoints and remote file servers. the Pro-ject software is managing multiple streaming services, rendering local hard drive music, a wonderful Web Music player and even a USB drive on the front panel. I control the whole she-bang with my Android phone or my iPad. It is Volumio taken to another level.

Thank you. Now they say they have a couple of filters for cleaning up the pc signals. But I have no need for that because it is not hooked to a pc.

 

[214bobd]

"anything coming from a local drive should render better audio performance than the same files coming over a network..."

Better performance based upon what criteria?
. . .
The DACs in my devices don't care where the data is coming from, as long as the corresponding receivers are properly implemented, and neither does anyone else's.

I guess if you're not using a quality external DAC, it may not make a difference. And it also depends on the quality of the other components in your system. I wanted something better than a Sonos or a Bluenote.

 

[BDWoody]

anything coming from a local drive should render better audio performance than the same files coming over a network.

Actually, it should be indistinguishable...

 

[214bobd]

Actually, it should be indistinguishable...

There are audio experts (Darko, Beekhuyzen and others) who would disagree. They can hear the difference. In my own experience, I compared the quality of the sound coming from JRiver used as a DLNA server with JRiver running on a local PC.

 

[BillG]

I guess if you're not using a quality external DAC, it may not make a difference. And it also depends on the quality of the other components in your system. I wanted something better than a Sonos or a Bluenote.

I guess you don't really know what you're talking based upon that comment, and your belief that Darko is an expert. We've many scientists and engineers around here. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of them would agree with me, not you...

 

[BDWoody]

There are audio experts (Darko, Beekhuyzen and others) who would disagree. They can hear the difference. In my own experience, I compared the quality of the sound coming from JRiver used as a DLNA server with JRiver running on a local PC.

And when any one of them actually demonstrates their claims under any kind of controlled conditions, I will be the first to recognize them. So far, it's been beyond elusive to get people to do more than make (definitive) claims based on unsubstantiated, uncontrolled subjective impressions.

They make money from 'hearing' differences that don't exist. The eyes/brain do a lot more of the 'hearing' than most think. If people would ask these experts to prove it...or would actually prove it to themselves (no peeking and match output levels...) there'd be a lot less money spent on bullshit.

 

[BDWoody]

I guess if you're not using a quality external DAC, it may not make a difference. And it also depends on the quality of the other components in your system. I wanted something better than a Sonos or a Bluenote.

Uh huh...

 

[somebodyelse]

I guess if you're not using a quality external DAC, it may not make a difference.

Quite the reverse - if the source makes a difference you're not using a quality DAC. Being able to perform correctly with any in-spec source is part of the job description. Most of the DACs tested here do an admirable job, but there have been some exceptions, and sometimes the manufacturers have updated their designs to fix the problem.

 

[Sounchasr]

Is the issue with fans that we can hear the fan in the room or that the fan in the Nuc somehow affects the music quality? If it has no effect on the music then I'm fine with that.

I'm looking at buying a Nuc to be my all-in-one streamer.

 

[GeorgeWalk]

I have built a few Raspberry Pi based streamers. I have used Pi3 and Pi4. Both work well. I have three running right now: one with Allo Boss, another with Allo Digi (feeding into my Parasound preamp), and one using a Topping D50s over USB. It also has the Pi touch screen on it.

I have used both Volumio and piCorePlayer. I much prefer piCorePlayer. It is easier to install and configure and has few issues. Also, the iPeng app on the iPhone is a great remote control.

 

[Sounchasr]

I have built a few Raspberry Pi based streamers. I have used Pi3 and Pi4. Both work well. I have three running right now: one with Allo Boss, another with Allo Digi (feeding into my Parasound preamp), and one using a Topping D50s over USB. It also has the Pi touch screen on it.

I have used both Volumio and piCorePlayer. I much prefer piCorePlayer. It is easier to install and configure and has few issues. Also, the iPeng app on the iPhone is a great remote control.

Are the Pi based streamers able to play all the different services (tidal, Spotify, Deezer, etc.)? That's why I was looking at a Nuc.

 

[Sounchasr]

What did the OP end up putting together?

 

[GeorgeWalk]

Are the Pi based streamers able to play all the different services (tidal, Spotify, Deezer, etc.)? That's why I was looking at a Nuc.

I use Spotify mostly. I know there are plugins to support Deezer, but I am not sure about tidal.

 

[somebodyelse]

Is the issue with fans that we can hear the fan in the room or that the fan in the Nuc somehow affects the music quality? If it has no effect on the music then I'm fine with that.

I'm looking at buying a Nuc to be my all-in-one streamer.

It's the audibility of the fan itself, particularly if the fan controller changes fan speed as the change in background noise is more intrusive than a constant level.

Are the Pi based streamers able to play all the different services (tidal, Spotify, Deezer, etc.)? That's why I was looking at a Nuc.

Check the squeezebox forums for the current status of streaming plugins for LMS (as used by PiCorePlayer, daphile, optional on Max2Play) - IIRC Spotify and Deezer are directly supported but Tidal needs a free account on mysqueezebox.com to work. As for etc. it's hit and miss - Qobuz being a hit and Amazon a miss among others. Volumio etc. have a different mix of supported streaming services.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If you go this route, there are also apps for tablets/phones that allow you to control the windows machine remotely. There is a chrome extension from google that gives you full cloud access, as well as other options that make use of Windows built in Remote Desktop Protocol.

This is certainly the quickest/cheapest route to having something up and running with your present equipment.

You can even use a wireless keyboard like the Logitech K400 which retails for $20 and hooks to one of the PC's usb slots with a dongle. You can then use your large entertainment TV as the monitor, use the Window's desktop apps for Netflix, Hulu, Qobuz, and Amazon Prime Video. Just hook the PC to your sound system via USB and to your video monitor via HDMI, and enjoy!

 

[Sounchasr]

I think I spoke too soon about not having any issues playing back with my PC. I just developed a crackling sound that comes through no matter what I'm playing (Deezer, Spotify, etc.). And now my DAC just dropped out (isn't being seen....)

 

[Bliman]

What did the OP end up putting together?

I haven't put anything together yet. My power amplifier went poof and is still in repair and it was pretty costly.
I thought of buying something else first but it has become to the forefront again.
Many people are speaking about raspberry pi but that doesn't look easy for me.
Sadly there are not many reasonably priced plug and play solutions so I am still looking at micro pc and maybe daphile.
I wish it was easier.

 

[Bliman]

Since my power amplifier went dead. I am getting it repaired by my audio dealer (who sent it to Lyngdorf).
I talked to him that I wanted to build something to archive my cd's and also maybe stream spotify or such.
So it would replace my cd player. So it has to be good.
I talked about this site. And I said there are many smart guys here. He said that can possibly be but he said that measurements are not all there is , it is important but it isn't all there yet(I agree and think there will be more measurements in the future). And he said that he gladly put anyone besides him and listen to the setups and tell him that there is no difference.
I asked if he had much knowledge about streaming. And he was honest and said no.
He also said that many people look over the importance of design and power supply and also see that uses this dac and such. But there are more important criteria to look for as well.
He then said that maybe the Innuos Zen Mini Mk3 was something for me (1100€ for 2 TB) I have also heard good things about SotM sMs-200Ultra Neo and Pro Ject Ultra streamer.
Now I can rip my cd's by the computer so a ripper in the Innuos is not really needed. Also,Innuos dac is useless to me because I have an RME ADI DAC. Also if you are looking at these streamers and such you are beginning to see things as better power supplies and USB reclocker, etc...
Now I am going to ask in the future if I can hear the three above in a blind test.
Do you think that is wise? And do you think I would hear a difference?
I have spent 1500 € on my power amplifier 1000€ on my RME DAC and over 1600€ on my speakers. Now I don't want to sell my gear short by offering them something inferior. But I don't want to give away my money for some snake oil.
Now I know this is an audio science forum and it is a difficult discussion because I am sitting between two worlds.
And can be played around by people here or by the dealers and such.
He also said to me that he can clearly hear the difference between cables blindly. He has been in the audio business for more than 40 years I think and also builds speakers (that is also used by musicians and studios) and such. He is also good friends with Bruno from Purify. And he said that he agrees you can hear the difference between cables (and I know he is regarded well here).
I know I should listen for myself. But can anyone give some advice about the above products? Or how I should approach this?

 

[BillG]

how I should approach this?

I've been using standard, off the shelf, consumer grade computers since the mid 90's in high fidelity audio systems as servers and players. Not once have I had to do anything particularly special to them.

On the very odd occasion, I might run into some electrical interference issue. However, I can usually resolve that in a few minutes by checking that the grounding is proper, which takes care of any humming, and ferrite rings enveloping cables takes care of any high pitched noise.

Please keep in mind that it's a dealer's job to sell products; some are ethical in their approach, but many aren't, and they'll lie to make the sale. Also, their knowledge usually isn't any more comprehensive than that of an educated consumer, and often times less, especially when dealing with consumers that work in science and engineering...