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DIY speakers with Waveguide

frabor

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First post in asr, after years lurking within the resolution graphs of the DAC I had finally "broke" and created a profile. Hello y'all :)

Really like your design and trying to build something similar. The deal on the Revels was awesome. Now they are back to $100+

The augerpo waveguides are top notch, but I do not have access to a nylon sls printer, and the price of shapeways of some of them is obscene (over $500).

So I am working on a design bases on the wg148r two ways in a passive radiator .8-1 cuft box . As a tweeter I want to use the xt25bg60-04 (in want a ring radiator) with an 8" passive radiator. not sure of the woofer yet. open to suggestions. I am trying to build an experimenter playground were active and passive can be use (dsp is the easiest way to test first) and the moto of the design is "value leader", i.e. try to get the best bang for the buck for the drivers. No need to go crazy IMHO as either the jbl 308 and 708 are hard to beat price-wise in each category.
 

Head_Unit

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Cabinets - $160
How much was the shipping? (I realize this differs from a lot of factors, but they are in Kansas and you're in Massachusetts so I assume you didn't pick them up yourself!
 
OP
617

617

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How much was the shipping? (I realize this differs from a lot of factors, but they are in Kansas and you're in Massachusetts so I assume you didn't pick them up yourself!
I don't know the exact value but I was quoted "between 20 and 30 bucks" when I ordered them. Pretty reasonable all told.
 
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617

617

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First post in asr, after years lurking within the resolution graphs of the DAC I had finally "broke" and created a profile. Hello y'all :)

Really like your design and trying to build something similar. The deal on the Revels was awesome. Now they are back to $100+

The augerpo waveguides are top notch, but I do not have access to a nylon sls printer, and the price of shapeways of some of them is obscene (over $500).

So I am working on a design bases on the wg148r two ways in a passive radiator .8-1 cuft box . As a tweeter I want to use the xt25bg60-04 (in want a ring radiator) with an 8" passive radiator. not sure of the woofer yet. open to suggestions. I am trying to build an experimenter playground were active and passive can be use (dsp is the easiest way to test first) and the moto of the design is "value leader", i.e. try to get the best bang for the buck for the drivers. No need to go crazy IMHO as either the jbl 308 and 708 are hard to beat price-wise in each category.

Hey frabor. Welcome to ASR. I would highly recommend going with on of the augerpro designs + tweeters. I tested I think 3 different tweeters with the WG148, 3d printing adapters for two of them and bolting one on directly. I think I got a bit lucky with the rst28f. If you want to use the adapter I made for the rst28f, I can provide the .stl file, I need to 3d print two new adapters anyway to finalize this build (I've since got a 3d printer). These adapters are small and work well from what I can gather. Cheap to print via normal 3d FDM printing with PLA.

However, if you want to do an augerpro waveguide, which is probably a safer bet, you don't really need to print them using SLS - SLS does result in great quality but I think FDM is totally fine - it is dimensionally accurate and a lot cheaper. There are surface treatments which can smooth over the little ridges, but if they're printed at high quality I think they'd look great.

If I could do this again I'd use the augerpro waveguide and the SB26 tweeter with the sb17 NBAC woofer...making a speaker very similar to the current Revels. The rival woofers I'm using are probably a touch nicer, but not as good a value at MSRP.
 

bigjacko

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@frabor @617 Is there any 3D printing service that can print the waveguide? I think if doing just two waveguide outsource them are cheaper than getting 3D printer. Does anyone have experience on much would the 3D printing service be?
 

Head_Unit

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[shipping the cabinets KS to MA] "between 20 and 30 bucks" when I ordered them. Pretty reasonable all told.
Yeah, WOW, that is incredibly cheap, more amazing than the cabinets themselves! I shipped a freaking blender I sold on eBay and it was $60!! Great to know a good source for cabinets.
 
OP
617

617

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@frabor @617 Is there any 3D printing service that can print the waveguide? I think if doing just two waveguide outsource them are cheaper than getting 3D printer. Does anyone have experience on much would the 3D printing service be?
I used this:
https://craftcloud3d.com/

Uses a bunch of different people across the world. Prices very low. You can't specify quality/infill ratios or anything, however.
 

bigjacko

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I used this:
https://craftcloud3d.com/

Uses a bunch of different people across the world. Prices very low. You can't specify quality/infill ratios or anything, however.
If we can't specify those, how do they know how fine the detail is? I am disapointed this size of company cannot let us choose how fine we want. How fine should the waveguide be and how do you ensure it is fine enough? What material do you recommand?
 
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617

617

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If we can't specify those, how do they know how fine the detail is? I am disapointed this size of company cannot let us choose how fine we want. How fine should the waveguide be and how do you ensure it is fine enough? What material do you recommand?

If heat exposure isn't an issue, PLA is the strongest, cheapest, most dimensionally stable material. Other materials resist heat better but they tend to require great care in printing not to warp. PETG would be the only other material I'd consider; it's weaker than PLA but more ductile.

The fine-ness of a 3d print normally refers to the slicing resolution - how thick each layer is. In my slicing software, 'standard' quality is .2mm steps, and low quality is .28mm steps. The prints I've got through craftcload looked to be 'standard' quality or better.

I personally don't think super small surface deviations on the order of a fifth of a mm will affect response. If you really want to smooth the surface, Smooth-On sells a brushable epoxy which is specifically designed to smooth out FDM ridges but personally I would not bother.

The craftcloud service works well for simple parts with easily printed geometry. I would modify the augerpro waveguides slightly before printing. It is not perfect, however, and being unable to select infill % and quality does limit its use. The most expensive factor in running any 3d printer is time; prints like a waveguide can take 6-12 hours, and reducing the slice resolution reduces time dramatically.

If you like making things as a hobby I would consider getting a 3D printer... I got one and I'm printing things left and right. I'm pretty capable at 3d modelling, however.
 

bigjacko

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If heat exposure isn't an issue, PLA is the strongest, cheapest, most dimensionally stable material. Other materials resist heat better but they tend to require great care in printing not to warp. PETG would be the only other material I'd consider; it's weaker than PLA but more ductile.

The fine-ness of a 3d print normally refers to the slicing resolution - how thick each layer is. In my slicing software, 'standard' quality is .2mm steps, and low quality is .28mm steps. The prints I've got through craftcload looked to be 'standard' quality or better.

I personally don't think super small surface deviations on the order of a fifth of a mm will affect response. If you really want to smooth the surface, Smooth-On sells a brushable epoxy which is specifically designed to smooth out FDM ridges but personally I would not bother.

The craftcloud service works well for simple parts with easily printed geometry. I would modify the augerpro waveguides slightly before printing. It is not perfect, however, and being unable to select infill % and quality does limit its use. The most expensive factor in running any 3d printer is time; prints like a waveguide can take 6-12 hours, and reducing the slice resolution reduces time dramatically.

If you like making things as a hobby I would consider getting a 3D printer... I got one and I'm printing things left and right. I'm pretty capable at 3d modelling, however.
Wow thank you for detailed explaination. I want a 3D printer as well, but cheap 3D printer is not precise enough and good 3D printer is too expensive. Around how much would a good and precise 3D printer cost?
 

Tangband

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First post in asr, after years lurking within the resolution graphs of the DAC I had finally "broke" and created a profile. Hello y'all :)

Really like your design and trying to build something similar. The deal on the Revels was awesome. Now they are back to $100+

The augerpo waveguides are top notch, but I do not have access to a nylon sls printer, and the price of shapeways of some of them is obscene (over $500).

So I am working on a design bases on the wg148r two ways in a passive radiator .8-1 cuft box . As a tweeter I want to use the xt25bg60-04 (in want a ring radiator) with an 8" passive radiator. not sure of the woofer yet. open to suggestions. I am trying to build an experimenter playground were active and passive can be use (dsp is the easiest way to test first) and the moto of the design is "value leader", i.e. try to get the best bang for the buck for the drivers. No need to go crazy IMHO as either the jbl 308 and 708 are hard to beat price-wise in each category.
I have built this loudspeaker ( picture ) . It uses a Seas er18rnx woofer crossed at 2,3 kHz 24 dB linkwitz Riley, active. I use a single capacitor for the equalisation of the waveguide , 3,9 uF . A hybrid dsp and passive crossover. This loudspeaker measures and sound better than Jbl 305 mkII ( I own one for measurement- reference ) and Jbl 530 .
D669FEF4-B262-4835-A0F3-23CBF8E189F5.jpeg
 
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Tangband

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What’s the WG? Which Vifa XT tweeter?

Monacor WG300, scanspeak R2604/833000
Swedish made adaptor ring made of Mdf .
 

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frabor

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Tangband: Great active design, I was looking at the Seas er18rnx from mine, on the short list. Congrats on achieving great result.

617: Thks for the link. I was looking at the paper equivalent to the SB17BNABC35-4 , the SB17MRX2C35-4s s I read that Al cone are harder to cross due to cone breakup. Really, if active, the problem is diminished. PLA is priblematic in Florida as with the humidity and heat you may loose the part if left under the wrong situation (car move, storage...)

jhaider: I changed from the WG300 to W148G due mostly to availability in the USA . I printed some adapters for the wg300 but I could not get the waveguides. It is not my design got it from diyaudio


I design lens-motors for focus adjustment. We test the motor bracekts in out personal 3d printer and then submit the final design to sls shapeway. Then we mold the part with blue casting silicon and then we cast with black epoxy resin. Bigger parts may require another techniques and may be printed with fiberglass. A good part from filament pla may do as a model. Results are really nice if you start with a good quality print. Most of our casting have been on the smaller than of 8" x 10" x 2" . Normally afterwards I apply a layer of krylon paint as finishing, but these parts are uncoated. It there was mature design we all agree is the choicest out the available aurgerpo wavegudies and there is interest, we might be able to cast it,. The process is not destructive and requires about 2 gallon of molding rubber.
 

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Plcamp

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I saw the waveguides from Augerpro, and my daughter can print them for me.

I ordered a pair of SB26STAC-C000-4 tweeters and will mate with his 8” elliptic waveguide at 2.25 kHz, which should match dispersion for my tangband midrange.

should have everything running in about two weeks.
 
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Plcamp

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Are you using pla filament or nylon synth. Im really interested to see how the outcome, pls post the pics of the waveguides :)

if you were responding to me, the answer is I don’t know yet. I will keep folks here aware.

I have long suspected waveguides are ‘the answer’, will be fun to see if that’s as true as my instincts predict.
 

jtwrace

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I'd get Pi 4 in a heartbeat if I was looking for a proper DIY project. Wayne is an incredibly nice man too on top of being a very smart E.E. and speaker designer. He is a real designer too not some garage type.

https://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html
 

Plcamp

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I'd get Pi 4 in a heartbeat if I was looking for a proper DIY project. Wayne is an incredibly nice man too on top of being a very smart E.E. and speaker designer. He is a real designer too not some garage type.

https://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html
There is no replacement for knowing what you are doing, and it is lazy to argue otherwise?
 
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