ATC SCM19 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[Chrise36]

It's a medium 2-way with nothing special, not even their expensive midrange dome, I'd like to see proof of such compromise. Also, where did you find that price? The v2 are around 2700€ here. Which doesn't include quality amplification, of course.

First because these are high quality measurements and second because of everything I said that you didn't argue against. If you buy a 2000€ photography/reference computer monitor with a loosy deltaE, low contrast and bad panel uniformity, you'll put the company in the mental dumpster where it belongs, why do speakers get a magical pass?

The speakers tested are the v1 these were a lot cheaper in Europe about 1500 euro back then. The SCM40 v1 used to cost 1800 euro now the v2 costs more than 4000 i think. Also this is a used speaker with unknown history and other tests done when these were new do not show such problems.

 

[stunta]

Id be checking that the crossover hadnt been tampered with in the old speaker, or at least try and source the newer model for testing.

The speaker under test is mine (not for long I think) and I purchased the pair brand new and I tampered with nothing, not that I would know how to do it.

Also this is a used speaker with unknown history

See above.

other tests done when these were new do not show such problems

Can you share those test results please?

 

[q3cpma]

The speakers tested are the v1 these were a lot cheaper in Europe about 1500 euro back then.

Way cheaper, indeed, but still a very far cry from something like the Genelec 8030 or the 8040 (if you include the price of amplification).

Also this is a used speaker with unknown history

This is getting a little biaised here. Especially as this brand is supposed to be overbuilt, and being passive, the electronics are very simple and shouldn't be the problem.

and other tests done when these were new do not show such problems.

Sorry, I didn't see others tests for the V1 in this thread. Care to link one?
Anyway, you know what would make all of this very simple? Manufacturer data.

So far, I don't see any problem with putting ATC in my mental bin, at least until I see another exhaustive high quality measurement (Klippel or S&R's facility) of another model. Well, they were already there by not being honest with educated buyers.

 

[stunta]

These are a 1500 euro/pair speaker ofcourse there are cost related compromises like the xover parts but the overdamped bass was part of the design.Why do you judge a company from one product and not from the whole range if you have read the tests from other sources?

Look, I have owned the SCM19 for many years and these results make me look clueless with hi-fi, but I am not going to defend ATC or suffer through cognitive dissonance over this. When a company like Elac or Revel can produce better measuring speakers at much lower price points, I don't see any reason to risk my money with ATC anymore unless testing of current models shows a consistent pattern of improved results at good prices.

One more issue with ATC in the US is the lack of dealerships locally. I think musicdirect carries some models in the consumer line but there are not that many retailers.

 

[stunta]

I have added the ATC SCM19 (2006) to Loudspeaker Explorer where it can be compared to other speakers.

Good consistency within the listening window:

Using the awesome explorer that @edechamps has built, I did a quick comparison of some of the recently reviewed models that I found interesting. Snapshot of listener preference scores below for easy reference.

The Elac DBR-62 seems like the best value given its much lower price.

 

[JIW]

It is an apples-to-apples comparison of 3" mid domes from the same era by 2 different companies, once linked by an OEM relationship. Moreover, identical 3" domes were used throughout the lineup of each brand. And when the comparison shows one brand having distortion so low that it can play twice as loud and 10 times the power before reaching the same level of distortion, I can't see how it's not a humiliation - especially when claims of an exceptional, transcendentally-good 3" dome are central to ATC's identity and sales pitch.

Not quite. The dome in the KH420 is loaded in a sizeable waveguide, while for the ATC not so much. A much closer comparison is with the KH310A where the dome can still play up to about 6 dB louder.

ATC SCM25A

Neumann KH310

Neumann KH420

EDIT: According to Neumann's specs, the amplifier for the midrange in the KH420 has about twice the power as that of the KH310 (130 W vs. 70 W at 0.1% THD+N (2.69 dB) and 140 W vs. 90 W at 10% THD+N (1.92 dB)).

 

[Chrise36]

I repost this for the scm 19 v1: 10 speaker comparison from avmentor.gr
http://www.avmentor.gr/reviews/group_test_stand_bookshelf_loudspeakers_2009_9.htm

 

[q3cpma]

I repost this for the scm 19 v1: 10 speaker comparison from avmentor.gr
http://www.avmentor.gr/reviews/group_test_stand_bookshelf_loudspeakers_2009_9.htm

Sorry if I don't speak Greek, but do you know what kind of process is used here? Anechoic chamber?

 

[Chrise36]

Sorry if I don't speak Greek, but do you know what kind of process is used here? Anechoic chamber?

Yes anechoic.They also say it was the best in the test lol.

 

[Soniclife]

The speaker under test is mine

Thanks for sending it in. Do you have any in room measurements?

 

[ReaderZ]

A botched product at a price point where you can clearly rule out cost related compromises means a problem somewhere in the design phase. Unless a completely different part of the company designed those, I don't see why I can't judge the company by this result. Or are you arguing that the skills to make good active and passive speakers are completely different?

So because Mac desktop are very expansive and perform like crap compare to cheaper PC, we should discount Apple's other products?

 

[maverickronin]

very expansive and perform like crap compare to cheaper PC

What Apple products does that not apply to?

 

[Verloc]

Ouch, they are over 100 pounds each!

I can see PMC and ATC now putting lead in the bottom of the cabinets to preclude further ASR testing.

At least in PMC’s case the lead will block the hole and probably improve it...

 

[amirm]

Yes anechoic.They also say it was the best in the test lol.

No they don't. Here is what they say:

The near-field measurements were used for bass which exaggerates the response in that region. Same problem exists in Stereophile measurements.

It clearly says "pseudoanechoic" measurement for that reason.

My measurements are correct and show why you don't want to trust any random measurement with DIY type methods as used above.

 

[MediumRare]

The speakers tested are the v1 these were a lot cheaper in Europe about 1500 euro back then. The SCM40 v1 used to cost 1800 euro now the v2 costs more than 4000 i think. Also this is a used speaker with unknown history and other tests done when these were new do not show such problems.

Someone mentioned Music Direct, which I live near to and have bought items from. Their prices are generally rather competitive if not deeply discounted. Here is an actual US price valid today
.

 

[q3cpma]

So because Mac desktop are very expansive and perform like crap compare to cheaper PC, we should discount Apple's other products?

Maybe you don't know what you're talking about, but comparing "computers" (as in both hardware + software) is obviously not as straightforward. If you're talking purely about hardware, it become a lot easier, though; take or build a big AMD workstation, get an expensive Eizo ColorEdge and you're set.

Anyway, the problem isn't "performing like crap", it's having a faulty design. If I found that Mac deskops had their CPU heatsink fan mounted the wrong way by design, I would certainly disregard the whole brand.

 

[Deleted member 17588]

That depends on your budget. Superior speakers are almost all active speakers, with increasing use of DSP crossovers. It started more than 20 years ago in the pro business (Genelec, Neumann/former Klein&Hummel, JBL) and now finds its way into the consumer business (Kef LS50 active, Kii Three, Grimm Audio, D&D, ...).

If your amp is a done deal you may have taken a wrong turn.

Thank you LTig

Appreciate your info & advice.
Time for me to do a bit of homework again I think.
The only toe (so far) I have dipped in active waters was with the Elac Navis ARB-51 & have got to say, was a bit disappointed, although I have no idea as to whether that would be a good or bad example.

 

[Deleted member 17588]

As another user has replied, Neumann/Klein and Hummel, Genelec, Kii, DutchDutch, even Focal in comparison to ATC. I started a long thread on evidence-based speaker designs, which might be useful.

Just realised you have also replied Illkless, cheers.
Am reading & learning

 

[jhaider]

...

ATC SCM25A

Another blow for ATC's vaunted driver engineering. It appears like their 7" woofer is roughly competitive output-wise with JBL's 5" woofer, with the latter in a much smaller cabinet.

Note that red/blue are inverted on the two graphs.

Obviously the 3-way design with midrange dome has more headroom in the midrange. In the bass these two look more evenly matched than they should be given the size and price differential.

 

[Chrise36]

No they don't. Here is what they say:

View attachment 72023

The near-field measurements were used for bass which exaggerates the response in that region. Same problem exists in Stereophile measurements.

It clearly says "pseudoanechoic" measurement for that reason.

My measurements are correct and show why you don't want to trust any random measurement with DIY type methods as used above.

No in their testing methodology in the beginning they say for sensitivity they use pseudoanechoic not for fr where they use anechoic.