Aimpire AD10: Fake Topping D10 DAC?

[fieldcar]

I think there's an important distinction between a knockoff and a counterfeit.

The Ampire AD10 is a clear knockoff. Amazon, should remove "Topping" from the product description, but the product itself isn't Topping branded.

Yeah yeah. Knockoff would be more accurate, but counterfeit is more sexy and persuasive. In my case it was a clear bait and switch. The photos, reviews, specs, everything was for a legit Topping D10 from Amazon directly. I also got it in Dec 2019, before any forum posts started popping up, so when I used 'counterfeit', it was a bit more applicable as there was no information at all anywhere online. If you fully know you're ordering an Aimpire AD10, then 'knockoff' is definitely accurate. But I guess we're going down the rabbit hole of petty semantics at this point.

 

[maverickronin]

Yeah yeah. Knockoff would be more accurate, but counterfeit is more sexy and persuasive. In my case it was a clear bait and switch. The photos, reviews, specs, everything was for a legit Topping D10 from Amazon directly.

The pictures were even wrong? Ouch!

Bait and switch is even worse.

 

[Tidaliser]

Well we all know what Aimpire is doing here, they're making a probably cheaper and clearly inferior DAC and peddling it under the good sound quality reputation of Topping by making it look the same as a D10 and referring to it as a D10. I'd call it conning people that went looking for a Topping D10 but indeed that's more semantics.
Perhaps if you didn't know about the D10 quality and you wanted an entry level DAC then you might be ok with the AD10, if you want more sound quality then you buy something more expensive. It would be interesting to know why it has such poor measurements, what component(s) have they got wrong or different to the D10 that's causing the drop in quality, perhaps they've just sourced the cheapest and nastiest everything, like resistors with a 5% tolerance
For me the Topping D10 sparked off my interest in sound quality, before the D10 I'd always used PCI/e sound cards and assumed they were the pinnacle of PC sound quality, I bought a D10 out of curiosity, it wasn't that expensive but obviously it blew my mind regarding the SQ jump.

All Topping has to do is to get some stock into Amazon, that would soon kill off the Aimpire AD10, seems Topping is doing nothing to combat this rip off D10. Although it's probably well known that China is good at copying things, so maybe it's just accepted as the de facto situation in China and it's no big deal.
I did make the point to Amazon that they're trying to break into the hires music streaming game, do they really want to be selling poor quality rip off DACs, I suspect my email and points were falling on deaf ears though.

 

[Veri]

All Topping has to do is to get some stock into Amazon, that would soon kill off the Aimpire AD10, seems Topping is doing nothing to combat this rip off D10. Although it's probably well known that China is good at copying things, so maybe it's just accepted as the de facto situation in China and it's no big deal.
I did make the point to Amazon that they're trying to break into the hires music streaming game, do they really want to be selling poor quality rip off DACs, I suspect my email and points were falling on deaf ears though.

It's difficult once your competitor owns the account/product pages of your product. Aimpire used to have a good standing with Topping and now that things went south they basically took it for their own. Amazon should be more accommodating in these things ..

 

[Tidaliser]

I don't know how Amazon works, if I was Topping I'd make a D11 that's a D10 but with some minor inexpensive tweaks that if possible notch the SQ up a little or even just add a separate power in connector so it could be powered from a decent PSU instead of noisy USB power. Then buyers have a clear choice between a rip off D10 or +$5 for a D11 that's even better. I know which one I'd buy

 

[Veri]

I don't know how Amazon works, if I was Topping I'd make a D11 that's a D10 but with some minor inexpensive tweaks that if possible notch the SQ up a little or even just add a separate power in connector so it could be powered from a decent PSU instead of noisy USB power. Then buyers have a clear choice between a rip off D10 or +$5 for a D11 that's even better. I know which one I'd buy

I think that's what they've done with E30 though that seems to be their "level-upped" D10 right now.
Slightly more expensive but also truly great specs.

 

[UCrazyKid]

I think that's what they've done with E30 though that seems to be their "level-upped" D10 right now.
Slightly more expensive but also truly great specs.

Looks like nice entry level DAC, but the reason I bough the D10 was for the USB to S/PDIF conversion, and it does it well.

 

[FireLion]

D10 is a super little unit I even preferred it over the D30. I wish that topping made an no frill balanced version with the same for factor as D10/30 much like the basic but good SDAC-Balanced.

 

[trl]

From UK Amazon, it's comical how the 'AD10' transforms itself into a D10, or have they omitted the 'A' and D10 is just short for AD10 ?

It's the seller itself that does the writing about the specs and everything else. Amazon will never doubt that seller is write or not, unless the fake is extremely visible. In this case, I guess Topping should file a complain and that specific seller will get unlisted/banned (or at least will remove that item or change the naming or specs).

After all, I can try myself to sell ADIBAS shoes with copy-paste specs like ADIDAS, who can argue with me that I'm not write about the specs?

 

[SWL3600]

Looks like nice entry level DAC, but the reason I bough the D10 was for the USB to S/PDIF conversion, and it does it well.

I also bought it strictly for USB-SPDIF conversion.....about six months ago through Amazon and got the knock-off. However, it has really impressed me compared to other USB-SPDIF converters I've used prior.

It impressed me so much as a USB-SPDIF converter I bought another one for another system in the house. This time I got the real D10 through Parts Express. Got it yesterday.

Sound quality/performance is exactly the same. The only thing different is the brightness of the display. They both display bright for the first ten seconds or so and then mellow out. The knock off mellows out to a desirable brightness. The Topping mellows out to a very dim display in comparison. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong (I hope).....it works great. It's just a lot dimmer than the Aimpire.

 

[Tidaliser]

I think the only chance you've got at hearing a difference is to A/B them with a RCA switcher, I ended up buying a cheap USB to headphone cable for use with my phone, I thought I might as well save myself $50+ and settle for mediocre sound quality. This uses a 32bit realtek DAC and doesn't sound bad at all, I'm sure the measurements for it would be shocking. I think the problem is how well has the D10 been ripped off and what level of quality control has the manufacturer got, do they even care about sound quality. Topping has built a reputation that I trust, so personally I'm not comfortable with rip off products and that's not being righteous, it's just you never really know what you're getting.

 

[BogdanR]

Several others have complained of their Topping merchandise from Amazon being opened and scratched, prior to receiving it. All four of my Topping products had the box seals cut (ie: D30, P50, D50s, A50). None of these devices were scratched, however, so I'm not that worried about it.

Still, it's time to get Topping gear from a source other than Amazon.

My D50s was also an obviously opened and carelessly re-packed and re-sealed. So obvious they offered me a discount when I’ve sent the pictures of the package.

 

[restorer-john]

After all, I can try myself to sell ADIBAS shoes with copy-paste specs like ADIDAS

I thought you were kidding.

 

[frogmeat69]

My stuffed crust Pizza Hat.

 

[restorer-john]

I liked the Pizza Hat logo- I did laugh at that one.

 

[Tidaliser]

I think the pizza hat proves the point, you thought you'd be getting a pizza when in fact you got a hat

 

[L5730]

Or a copy of redhat Linux.

 

[harmonmonic]

I want this Pizza Hat

 

[iMickey503]

It was this and another thread and the reviews here that got me to join the site as a donner.
Amazon had it for sale for around $35 or less with free shipping so I picked it up.
the unit remained in the Box for about a year since I really didn't have a use for it.

I also don't like buying equipment that is counterfeit. I strongly believe that someone's hard work should be rewarded. And there is a sense of Pride for owning the genuine article.

when I initially purchased the unit I tried it with my Windows 7 PC and couldn't get it to work so I just put it back in the box.

I noticed many of you aren't really interested in car audio as you're dedicated listening area but that's where I listen to almost all my music that I enjoy. I do have some nice home speakers including Maggie's and some nice bookshelves but I don't generally listen to music in the home.

recently I purchased a Amazon Auto unit simply to do some testing for audio quality and to see how it works in the vehicle after less than 24 hours I was at the Amazon return center returning the unit. when I mean BAD (RUBBISH/ Waste/ Bile) I mean if you put your headphones on you will hear the thing make all sorts of wonderful digital noises it's a cacophony of the insane to realize someone pushed out a product like this and people actually use this device via its 3.5 mm Jack.

I suppose for the intended audience it might not be such a bad idea but then again it's still pretty bad. my bad I mean if a cassette tape hiss is not to your liking make that * 3 and then you probably have a very faint idea of just how much noise this thing actually produces in the fact that it distorts while its own voice as being played tells you there's something wrong with the unit.

to cut to the chase I want to get rid of Bluetooth in my audio chain. I also had a free 3-month trial to Amazon HD so I thought I'd try it out. running a 3.5 to RCA cable directly to my amplifier the sound was amazing coming from Amazon Chromebook and playing through the web player.

regretfully I can't tell a large difference between both tracks on Amazon and Spotify.
I do notice that some of Amazon tracks are slightly louder, but again I haven't given it any serious actual time to compare both premium services. I have till this October to really check them both out and with Spotify going HD I don't know if I'm going to even bother with Amazon music. I'm already a Prime member and the single device plan is only $4 so I might think about keeping it as a backup but I really don't need it.

both Services sound great over the analog headphone output of my Chromebook. it sounded so good that I decided to not even bother using my Android stereo RCA outs anymore. in fact it seemed the Chromebook was able to drive my AMP better than the Android head unit itself. and sound FAR better!


I was even able to do volume control with my phone using spotify's web interface so that was my setup for about a week or two.

for Giggles, I wondered if my tablet and Chromebook supported the Aimpire USB Dac.
It worked plug and play. Even volume controls.

I had an official USB/networking Samsung OTG adapter. Worked without any hiccups with the Samsung Pro tablet.

both of these items are out of official support by Google so it was a great surprise to me everything just worked.

further cutting to the chase?
I can never go back to just listening to music over a head units Bluetooth.
gone are all the Jitter timing Tempo issues all of the pops clicks and Clacks that are familiar with car audio everything that was a problem before is literally gone.

the sound quality is so good I'm now we listening to all the old stuff I used to listen to on Spotify and I'm surprised by how much more I enjoy it now.

it's gotten to the point now that I have to once again upgrade my system speakers.
the weird side effect being I no longer listen to it louder but I actually listen to my system had lower volume levels.
honestly I find it more enjoying...

there are still some musical tracks that I love to absolutely push the dial to 11 but... the tracks that were so hard to listen to before and just never sounded right... actually are almost nine-tenths of the way there.

this may be the best $35 I've spent in a long time!

now I just keep it up on the dash because I like looking at the cool display now.
I'm thinking I might have to put some heat sinks on the chips inside just to keep it cool since the unit is black.

someone mentioned that the official topping deck has a display that gets dimmer. for me the brightness of the display even while driving at night is perfect.

I'm not sure what the rest of you use as reference recording files but since I'm streaming over Spotify I can tell you that there are tracks that are really hard to reproduce when played back on their service. One of them is an incubus track where the music gets so busy and almost seems to fall apart. over Bluetooth it never sounds right. (SBC)

THIS DAC DELIVERS!

And I'm doing this with an Inexpensive Blaupunkt amp I've been testing?
I'm Floored.

this is as close to my Panasonic rptx headphones that I have ever been able to experience in a car listing environment in regards to Clarity and sound quality produced.

and there is no way in hell I going to downgrade from this setup.

it's literally DAC-> AMP-> Speakers-> ME.

there's also no difference from when my car is running or when my car is turned off .
there's absolutely no noise I can pick up that relates to engine hum or anything else.

if I put my ear right up against the Piezo super Tweeter? I can hear something that vaguely reminds me of tape hiss. at listening position? It's almost completely inaudible unless the noise floor in the cabin is absolutely silent .

Audiotool & Real-Time RTA Both confirm this.

I plan to purchase the topping unit in the future as I doubt I'm ever going to settle for anything less in the mobile environment.
The fact that you can get the Topping AD-10 for around $100 is mind-blowing!

it even makes Fred Durst from Limp Bizkit sound better.

my only real regret is that I didn't start using this sooner. there are definitely some convenience drawbacks, but with the sound being this good? I can live with it.

 

[NSX]

A member purchased what he thought was a Topping D10 DAC from Amazon as the seller. The unit that he received however had the brand "Aimpire" and model number AD10. He asked me if I could look to see if it performs the same or is a fake.

Looking on Amazon, one clearly sees the issue:

View attachment 48529

Yet the picture of what the device looks like the one that the member received:

View attachment 48530​

This curious note on Amazon page makes the buy think this is a newer version:
View attachment 48531

Stacking the real Topping D10 on top of Aimpire AD10 shows the striking similarity:

View attachment 48533​

In use however, the display of sample rate on AD10 fake is dim and not matching the PCM/DSD. The reverse is true on real Topping D10 where the sample rate is bright and clear and the PCM/DSD is merely in sharper front.

Plugging either DAC in gets identified as "D10" so clearly the identity of the USB transceiver is copied in the AD10.

Unlike Topping products, there is no manual, or Audio Precision measurements.

Speculation is that maybe they have cloned the entire thing so performance would be the same. Let's find out.

USB DAC Audio Measurements
Let's start with Aimpire AD10:
View attachment 48535

That's not good. Our noise floor is so high that it is hiding all distortion spikes.

Let's put the Topping D10 in there instead with identical cabling and setup:

View attachment 48536

We get a bunch of noise back resulting in large improvement in SINAD of 14 dB.

So if they have cloned Topping 10, they have screwed something up. If not, then it must using a different DAC chip which can't even resolve 16 bit audio properly without adding noise to it.

The member is on a short fuse to return this to amazon so I did not run additional tests. It is clear you are paying the same amount but not getting the same performance as the real Topping D10.

Conclusions
Fair bit of work has gone into making this clone including the case and such. Maybe Topping made it for others with reduced performance. Maybe it is cloned. We can't tell. What we can tell is that it doesn't perform the same yet you are charged the same amount of money. So I say avoid it.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

As you see, on top of reviewing audio equipment, I have taken on detective work! That surly deserves a raise in the money I can extract from you all. So please donate generously using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

I think there is a major problem in your review and maesurements.

As long as you don't measure various batches of a product in regular intervals it is impossible to come to a conclusion. In our case a Topping D10 produced e.g. around 2020 could easily perform as bad as a Aimpire AD10 and vive versa.

At that time there may were faulty/defective DACs in circulation, whatever. Chinese are not famous to care much about such details as long as the business is running smooth.