Revel M16 vs. Focal Chora 806 for small room?

[OP1M.DR3M]

So I'm thinking about getting bigger speakers for my small room which measures 13' x 10' x 9' (L x W x H)..

I've been listening to the KEF Q100 for the past year and just purchased a pair of KEF LS50 three weeks ago. My current amp is SMSL DA-8S rated at 40wpc @ 8ohms and 80wpc @ 4ohms. I was initially somewhat disappointed with the LS50 but have come to like them a fair bit.. though I don't think I will be keeping them.

I want something that digs deeper in the bass, perhaps something wider/more open sounding, and definitely something more efficient. My amp volume goes to 60 and often I'm listening in the mid 30s but sometimes I'm getting deep into the 40s.. I feel like I want a bit more headroom. I've got my eyes on the Revel M16 and Focal Chora 806..

I am a bit more drawn to the Chora 806 for their looks, the significantly higher efficiency rating, and the reported wider directivity
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cal-aria-906-speaker-review.14085/post-430433 which I'm hoping translates to the wide soundstage several reviews have reported.

With M16 I'm not sure if it will be much/any more efficient than my LS50?... What I think I like about it is looking at @amirm measurements below it seems flat except a hump down in the bass and roll-off above 10k. My DA-8S has bass/treble tone controls (+/- 10db) so I'm hoping I can tweak those ends relatively well if desired? For reference I'm running +2 or 3db bass and +1db treble on the LS50.

The Chora 806 graph below by @napilopez looks more ragged (?) but I've only started looking at graphs this past month so I'm not sure how to interpret a lot of things.

I'm wondering if either of these speakers would not be ideal or problematic for my room for some reason? My speakers stand along the longer 13ft wall and will be no more than ~1ft away from that front wall (likely closer). The left speaker is about 2.5ft from that side wall and the right speaker is about the same distance from shelving/clothes, etc. on that side. My speakers currently sit ~5.3ft from each other (tweeter center to tweeter center) and my ears sit about 6-6.5ft from them. About 2ft behind me is a window I can open to fine tune bass response . The left speaker is in kind of a weird situation in that it fires over my bed to the listening position. As it sits, the LS50 tweeter fires about a foot above my bed (on 36" stands). With either M16 or Chora 806 I should have a few inches from the bottom of the woofer to the top of my mattress. You can take a look at the pic below to get an idea of the space..

Welp, that ended up being a longer post than anticipated.. but as always your insight is greatly appreciated

 

[CDMC]

Here are my thoughts, which are not going to tell you which of your choices to choose:

1) When you boost your bass by 3+, you double the amount of power required by your amp.
2) The LS50 is a bass shy speaker.
3) The LS50 is inefficient and many say really needs 100+ watts a channel.

The limiting factor in a speaker's efficiency is generally the woofer. Most tweeters have sensitivity of 90+ db and need to be padded down to match the woofer. For the woofer, the efficiency is a function of enclosure size, bass extension, and efficiency, what is termed Hoffman's Iron Law, after Josef Hoffman of KLH.

Your amplifier is rated at 30 watts per channel into 8 ohms continuous at 10%thd. At a more realistic 1% level it is probably 20 watts per channel. Your speakers are 84db/w efficient (we are ignoring the dip in resistance and moderate phase angle at 135 which may tax the current capability of your amplifier further), add in your 3db of bass boost, and they are effectively 81db/watt. If we calculate at 9 foot listening distance, your peak SPL before running into clipping is about 92db. While moderately loud, you could well be running into severe clipping with your amp.

There are two ways to fix the clipping problem, more power, or more efficient speakers. For every doubling of your amplifier power, you pick up 3db of loudness. So if you went to an amplifier that could put out 160w channel before clipping, you would be able to have peak levels of 101 db before clipping. The other way to solve the issue is go to a more efficient speaker, which you are looking at. The Revel M16 is 85.5 db efficient and has more bass (so hopefully no bass boost required by you), which would get about 96db peak before heavy clipping. The Focal 906 with its far larger enclosure is more efficient, giving you 89.5 db efficiency and a bit more bass dig than the Revel. Now you are up to 99db before clipping.

My suggestion would be, if you can save up a bit more or are willing to go used, try to find the money for the next step up, the Revel F35. These sell for about $800-900 used and a smart shopper could find a dealer that would sell them new for a discount from retail. These will get you 90db/watt efficiency, good bass extension, and good bass output capabilities at a reasonable distortion (3 x 5.25" drivers provide about 270 cm2 of radiating area, 3 times more radiating area than 1 and twice a single 6.5”, and a bit more than even a single 8”). The F35s will also handle the extra power from a larger amp well if/when you got a larger amp or go to a larger room. Having tried the larger F36s, I found them to be an incredible speaker for the money. Not as good as my much more expensive Magnepans, but a pair of speakers that if someone told me they were the only pair I could have, I would be very happy with.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

Hmmm... this is all really interesting, thanks for the reply.

Your amplifier is rated at 30 watts per channel into 8 ohms continuous at 10%thd

10%.. is this like.. terrible?

At a more realistic 1% level it is probably 20 watts per channel. Your speakers are 84db/w efficient (we are ignoring the dip in resistance and moderate phase angle at 135 which may tax the current capability of your amplifier further), add in your 3db of bass boost, and they are effectively 81db/watt. If we calculate at 9 foot listening distance, your peak SPL before running into clipping is about 92db. While moderately loud, you could well be running into severe clipping with your amp.

Ok, so I listen from about 6ft away and anything over 80db starts to feel pretty awkwardly loud for my living situation (measured on my phone's decibel meter app). How much theoretical leeway is that giving me before clipping? How do you calculate when clipping will happen?

There are two ways to fix the clipping problem, more power, or more efficient speakers. For every doubling of your amplifier power, you pick up 3db of loudness. So if you went to an amplifier that could put out 160w channel before clipping, you would be able to have peak levels of 101 db before clipping. The other way to solve the issue is go to a more efficient speaker, which you are looking at. The Revel M16 is 85.5 db efficient and has more bass (so hopefully no bass boost required by you), which would get about 96db peak before heavy clipping. The Focal 906 with its far larger enclosure is more efficient, giving you 89.5 db efficiency and a bit more bass dig than the Revel. Now you are up to 99db before clipping.

Cool, so I'm guessing I won't need any bass boost with either the Revel or Focal in my small space.. I may even need to turn it down some. The speakers will likely be less than a foot away from the front wall so that should give a lot of bass reinforcement. Am I understanding correctly that if I turn down the bass I'm essentially increasing the speaker's overall efficiency?

My suggestion would be, if you can save up a bit more or are willing to go used, try to find the money for the next step up, the Revel F35. These sell for about $800-900 used and a smart shopper could find a dealer that would sell them new for a discount from retail. These will get you 90db/watt efficiency, good bass extension, and good bass output capabilities at a reasonable distortion (3 x 5.25" drivers provide about 270 cm2 of radiating area, 3 times more radiating area than 1 and twice a single 6.5”, and a bit more than even a single 8”). The F35s will also handle the extra power from a larger amp well if/when you got a larger amp or go to a larger room. Having tried the larger F36s, I found them to be an incredible speaker for the money. Not as good as my much more expensive Magnepans, but a pair of speakers that if someone told me they were the only pair I could have, I would be very happy with.

At the moment I'm set on sticking with bookshelf speakers. I really prefer the ease of transporting them and also if I had floorstanders then the left speaker would likely have a driver or two firing straight at my mattress because of how my room is set up. I guess a subwoofer could be another way to free up some precious power from my little amp..

 

[Voo]

get a sub 1st

 

[Eetu]

Have you seen this Chora 806 spin from @napilopez? Easier to compare with the M16.

Yeah, as I see it you have four options for better sound:

(with the LS50)
1) get a sub
2) an amp with more power (>100W)

or

3) get more efficient speakers like the Chora 806
4) all of the above

I haven't listened to either speakers but based on the measurements and subjective reviews both should be really good and probably better than the LS50.

I think you may want to upgrade your amp at some point anyway. (edit: not that there would a huge audible improvement but not having to avoid inefficient speakers).

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

Have you seen this Chora 806 spin from @napilopez? Easier to compare with the M16.
View attachment 69993
Yeah, as I see it you have four options for better sound:

(with the LS50)
1) get a sub
2) an amp with more power (>100W)

or

3) get more efficient speakers like the Chora 806
4) all of the above

I haven't listened to either speakers but based on the measurements and subjective reviews both should be really good and probably better than the LS50.

I think you may want to upgrade your amp at some point anyway. (edit: not that there would a huge audible improvement but not having to avoid inefficient speakers).

Oh, yeah I've seen this graph at some point..

I'm pretty certain I'll be getting rid of the LS50, and not just because of lack of bass and inefficiency. I've always lusted for the LS50 and had to give them a try when they went on sale recently. I thought if I could power them with this little amp then I shouldn't have issues driving most other speakers should I decide not to keep them. I like them, everything sounds tight and precise.. but I'm not super excited about them. I feel like I'd enjoy bass that's actually just a bit less tight. I'd like something more open, wider sounding.. with just as much detail but a touch smoother in the treble, more "delicate" I guess..

I'm leaning towards Chora 806 or Aria 906 right now. I'm not really seeing other 6.5" bookshelf speakers that are this efficient in the price range. Klipsch RP-600M on paper but Amir's measurements showed them dipping to 3.2 ohms and there's a big hole in the frequency response.

I believe I won't need a sub in this room to be satisfied and I'd like to test that theory.. I like to keep things as simple, compact, and un-cluttered as possible.

Not sure what to make of Chora 806 vs Aria 906.. are there any meaningful differences in the measurements? Mainly interested in differences in overall tonality.. I noticed the crossover point is a little different: 2.8k for Aria and 3k for Chora. And Aria rated to dig a little lower; 55hz vs 58hz. Don't know how much of a difference this makes.

 

[daftcombo]

Oh, yeah I've seen this graph at some point..

I'm pretty certain I'll be getting rid of the LS50, and not just because of lack of bass and inefficiency. I've always lusted for the LS50 and had to give them a try when they went on sale recently. I thought if I could power them with this little amp then I shouldn't have issues driving most other speakers should I decide not to keep them. I like them, everything sounds tight and precise.. but I'm not super excited about them. I feel like I'd enjoy bass that's actually just a bit less tight. I'd like something more open, wider sounding.. with just as much detail but a touch smoother in the treble, more "delicate" I guess..

I'm leaning towards Chora 806 or Aria 906 right now. I'm not really seeing other 6.5" bookshelf speakers that are this efficient in the price range. Klipsch RP-600M on paper but Amir's measurements showed them dipping to 3.2 ohms and there's a big hole in the frequency response.

I believe I won't need a sub in this room to be satisfied and I'd like to test that theory.. I like to keep things as simple, compact, and un-cluttered as possible.

Not sure what to make of Chora 806 vs Aria 906.. are there any meaningful differences in the measurements? Mainly interested in differences in overall tonality.. I noticed the crossover point is a little different; 2.8k for Aria and 3k for Chora

View attachment 70001View attachment 70002

Your location will modify your performance/price ratio. Where are you?

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

Your location will modify your performance/price ratio. Where are you?

Bay Area, California

 

[daftcombo]

Bay Area, California

I love my Aria 906 but would go with Revel then.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

I love my Aria 906 but would go with Revel then.

Because of price? Aria 906 is $900 a pair on Amazon right now. The higher efficiency is a big appeal for my little amp, but maybe I don't need to be that concerned about it?

 

[Colonel7]

Your amp is really the limiting factor. Tough choice as those are nice speaker options and that's where money should go in a small system like this. Start saving for an upgraded amp but don't hold back on the speaker purchase

 

[daftcombo]

Because of price? Aria 906 is $900 a pair on Amazon right now. The higher efficiency is a big appeal for my little amp, but maybe I don't need to be that concerned about it?

The Aria 906 aren't that efficient in my book, but for your room size it would be perfect. If you're a bass head, you should consider other speakers though, they don't go really deep. Such a joy to listen to anyway.

 

[OP1M.DR3M]

As my room is ~12 square meters with a listening distance of ~6 feet, how concerned should I be about this?..

 

[daftcombo]

As my room is ~12 square meters with a listening distance of ~6 feet, how concerned should I be about this?..View attachment 70016View attachment 70017View attachment 70018

If Arias don't fit, Revel won't neither. No problem in my opinion.

 

[DSJR]

S'cuse me for butting in, but your amp isn't getting anywhere near the full potential of the KEFs in my opinion. I'd budget for the amp first before fully condemning the speakers, even if the KEF's are a little clinical and 'bright' in balance perhaps? High quality power is cheap these days, whether it be a Pro style amp with gain controls on the front, or say for example, a Yamaha integrated (may not have the audiophile 'charm' but technically I think most are fine and all of them would give far greater headroom).

I think many would be amazed how quickly the power can be used up. 30W these days is absolutely nothing and those amp makers that do claim it's enough, are usually encouraging soft clipping as a form of audible compression - emphasises 'air and space' methinks as peaks are smoothed off I reckon.

 

[Dj7675]

So I'm thinking about getting bigger speakers for my small room which measures 13' x 10' x 9' (L x W x H)..

I've been listening to the KEF Q100 for the past year and just purchased a pair of KEF LS50 three weeks ago. My current amp is SMSL DA-8S rated at 40wpc @ 8ohms and 80wpc @ 4ohms. I was initially somewhat disappointed with the LS50 but have come to like them a fair bit.. though I don't think I will be keeping them.

I want something that digs deeper in the bass, perhaps something wider/more open sounding, and definitely something more efficient. My amp volume goes to 60 and often I'm listening in the mid 30s but sometimes I'm getting deep into the 40s.. I feel like I want a bit more headroom. I've got my eyes on the Revel M16 and Focal Chora 806..

I am a bit more drawn to the Chora 806 for their looks, the significantly higher efficiency rating, and the reported wider directivity
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cal-aria-906-speaker-review.14085/post-430433 which I'm hoping translates to the wide soundstage several reviews have reported.

With M16 I'm not sure if it will be much/any more efficient than my LS50?... What I think I like about it is looking at @amirm measurements below it seems flat except a hump down in the bass and roll-off above 10k. My DA-8S has bass/treble tone controls (+/- 10db) so I'm hoping I can tweak those ends relatively well if desired? For reference I'm running +2 or 3db bass and +1db treble on the LS50.

View attachment 69842
The Chora 806 graph below by @napilopez looks more ragged (?) but I've only started looking at graphs this past month so I'm not sure how to interpret a lot of things.

View attachment 69843

I'm wondering if either of these speakers would not be ideal or problematic for my room for some reason? My speakers stand along the longer 13ft wall and will be no more than ~1ft away from that front wall (likely closer). The left speaker is about 2.5ft from that side wall and the right speaker is about the same distance from shelving/clothes, etc. on that side. My speakers currently sit ~5.3ft from each other (tweeter center to tweeter center) and my ears sit about 6-6.5ft from them. About 2ft behind me is a window I can open to fine tune bass response . The left speaker is in kind of a weird situation in that it fires over my bed to the listening position. As it sits, the LS50 tweeter fires about a foot above my bed (on 36" stands). With either M16 or Chora 806 I should have a few inches from the bottom of the woofer to the top of my mattress. You can take a look at the pic below to get an idea of the space..

View attachment 69844

Welp, that ended up being a longer post than anticipated.. but as always your insight is greatly appreciated

I have M16 in my theater place near the front wall. When placed near a front wall the low end is really boosted dramatically and requires some eq to get it under control. The M16 is a nice sounding speaker. I have M106s in by living room. I haven’t done any a/b with them but they are certainly more similar than not. If you work with a good revel dealer, you can do better than list price.

 

[CDMC]

Hmmm... this is all really interesting, thanks for the reply.

10%.. is this like.. terrible?

Ok, so I listen from about 6ft away and anything over 80db starts to feel pretty awkwardly loud for my living situation (measured on my phone's decibel meter app). How much theoretical leeway is that giving me before clipping? How do you calculate when clipping will happen?

Cool, so I'm guessing I won't need any bass boost with either the Revel or Focal in my small space.. I may even need to turn it down some. The speakers will likely be less than a foot away from the front wall so that should give a lot of bass reinforcement. Am I understanding correctly that if I turn down the bass I'm essentially increasing the speaker's overall efficiency?

At the moment I'm set on sticking with bookshelf speakers. I really prefer the ease of transporting them and also if I had floorstanders then the left speaker would likely have a driver or two firing straight at my mattress because of how my room is set up. I guess a subwoofer could be another way to free up some precious power from my little amp..

Going through in your order above:

1) Yes, 10% THD is very high and audible. The generally accepted standard for clipping is 1%, which is audible in the higher frequencies.
2) Phone app SPL meters are very innacurate. The one I use in my Iphone reads 3db low on a steady pink noise measurements (the difference of 2x on power). Also, they do not accurately reflect peaks. 80db average is pretty loud (by way of reference, my target level in my nearfield setup is 74db per speaker, 77db for the pair at -20dbfs, which means peaks could be as high as 94db per speaker, 97 db for the pair). At 80 db on your meter, you are likely hitting anywhere between 85-95 db peaks, depending on how dynamic the music is. Here are a few links that discuss reference levels and volume leveling if you want to go down that rabbit hole:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/establishing-project-studio-reference-monitoring-levels

https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/loudness-war-peace-is-almost-here/


3) It's not that you are increasing the efficiency so much as when you turn the bass up, you are demanding extra power to fulfill that extra volume request. Typically, bass demands the most power.
3) I would not get stuck on the woofers firing at your mattress. It is likely inaudible, are barely audible. You won't be in that room with that setup forever. I can understand the ease of moving bookshelf speakers.
4) Running the speakers with subwoofer will only lessen the power requirement if you use a high power crossover to limit the bass going to the mains. How much it decreases the power requirements is subject to debate.

At the end of the day, as others have mentioned, you are going to need more power. More power doesn't have a cost a lot of money. A good stereo receiver or integrated amplifier can provide plenty for your needs. It doesn't need to cost a lot (i.e., you can get a Yamaha R-S202 100 w/ch on Crutchfield right now for $129.95). Used is also a great option.

In sticking with bookshelves, I would lean toward the Focals of your two choices, as the 6.5" woofer and larger enclosure are going to provide more substantial, cleaner bass than the M16. If it were me, for the same money, I would wait and buy a pair of used M106s, which come up regularly for about $800.

 

[napilopez]

Oh, yeah I've seen this graph at some point..

I'm pretty certain I'll be getting rid of the LS50, and not just because of lack of bass and inefficiency. I've always lusted for the LS50 and had to give them a try when they went on sale recently. I thought if I could power them with this little amp then I shouldn't have issues driving most other speakers should I decide not to keep them. I like them, everything sounds tight and precise.. but I'm not super excited about them. I feel like I'd enjoy bass that's actually just a bit less tight. I'd like something more open, wider sounding.. with just as much detail but a touch smoother in the treble, more "delicate" I guess..

I'm leaning towards Chora 806 or Aria 906 right now. I'm not really seeing other 6.5" bookshelf speakers that are this efficient in the price range. Klipsch RP-600M on paper but Amir's measurements showed them dipping to 3.2 ohms and there's a big hole in the frequency response.

I believe I won't need a sub in this room to be satisfied and I'd like to test that theory.. I like to keep things as simple, compact, and un-cluttered as possible.

Not sure what to make of Chora 806 vs Aria 906.. are there any meaningful differences in the measurements? Mainly interested in differences in overall tonality.. I noticed the crossover point is a little different: 2.8k for Aria and 3k for Chora. And Aria rated to dig a little lower; 55hz vs 58hz. Don't know how much of a difference this makes.
View attachment 70001View attachment 70002

I'm not sure you could say there's much in the way of a meaningful difference between the speakers especially considering the different measurement methods. It's been my experience that Focal's modern speakers all have a very similar sound to one another. Some differences here and there but they definitely have a 'house sound' imo (which is pretty neutral).

I also am not sure I'd take the manufacturer specs too seriously. For example, the Chora is rated to a little less bass extension and little less sensitivity, yet in soundstage network's measurements, it actually appears to be the opposite, with the chora having a little more bass and virtually equal sensitivity, though the chora is ahead a smidge (87 vs 86.8).

Chora in Red, Aria in black. Even though soundstage network's measurements are not accurate below 100Hz or so, you can see the Chora is trending towards a bit more bass. Could all be measurement variation though. the aria was measured between the tweeter and woofer, vs the tweeter for the chora.

As my room is ~12 square meters with a listening distance of ~6 feet, how concerned should I be about this?..View attachment 70016View attachment 70017View attachment 70018

Same as above, I woulnd't worry about that too much. I'd just make sure the speakers are precisely at the right height as the aria and chora are quite sensitivity to ear height (but being above the speaker is better than being below it).

The measurements are too close to call. Even in the preference score! Despite the difference in measurement technique, my preference scores for the Chora were extremely similar to those of the Aria.

The Aria got a 5.6 standard, 7.9 with sub, and 8.1 with sub and using the listening window.

My measurements of the Chora get a 5.7 standard, 7.7 with sub, and 8.1 using the listening window lol.

Basically, pick whichever you think is prettiest lol.

 

[renaudrenaud]

Why don't you go for a pair of Elac DBR62, something like the Sanskritt V2 and a decent amp?

 

[VintageFlanker]

As some already pointed out, your amp is clearly the weakest link here.

The DA8S is based on Infineon MA12070 module. According to its own datasheet, this module will start clipping from 40W/4Ω...

This amp is unable to properly drive either LS50, nor 906s in my book... (Don't know about M16).