Studio monitor speakers without hiss?

[maty]

Registered just to say that Presonus R65 is horrible in terms of hissing noise. If I listened something at low volume, then sometimes I could not tell if audio I'm playing back uses white noise or if it is the speaker self noise. Hihats can get drown in the noise. Horrible.

Two cheap? class D amps by loudspeaker.

 

[usern]

Presonus R65 use class D amps and they are one of the first mass market studio monitors to incorporate DSP filters to split signal to woofer and tweeter. It adds A/D conversion step which could contribute to the noise.

 

[D888]

I have a pair of Event 20/20 BAS v3 monitors hooked up to a TC Electronic BMC-2 via xlrs. Zero hiss. Thinking about upgrading to some Focal twins. Anyone have them? W

 

[dasdoing]

it seams that class d monitors hiss. Even the KRK Rokit line had near zero hiss (only with ear next to tweeter) before they switched to class d

 

[somebodyelse]

it seams that class d monitors hiss. Even the KRK Rokit line had near zero hiss (only with ear next to tweeter) before they switched to class d

That would be the same KRK Rokit that was used in EEVBlog #1118 - Why Are Studio Monitors Noisy? where the noise is tracked to the Class AB TDA2052 amp? Meanwhile the KH80DSP manages not to hiss while using a Class D amp. Cheap (and not so cheap) monitors have been hissing since before Class D amps entered the market segment. It's about the engineering, not the amp class.

 

[dasdoing]

That would be the same KRK Rokit that was used in EEVBlog #1118 - Why Are Studio Monitors Noisy? where the noise is tracked to the Class AB TDA2052 amp? Meanwhile the KH80DSP manages not to hiss while using a Class D amp. Cheap (and not so cheap) monitors have been hissing since before Class D amps entered the market segment. It's about the engineering, not the amp class.

you sure this was not a defective monitor?
I only know the first rokit version and it makes no noise at all. why would you make a product worse? then I heard about rokit hiss when d class line came out. so i deduced that the class d is the culprit

 

[somebodyelse]

you sure this was not a defective monitor?
I only know the first rokit version and it makes no noise at all. why would you make a product worse? then I heard about rokit hiss when d class line came out. so i deduced that the class d is the culprit

It's hard to be certain it wasn't faulty - see #1072 and #1073 for more on why - but it's consistent with the datasheet amp performance. They aren't the worst offenders by any means, but it was a memorable example given you'd mentioned them. I've seen other similar tracing for hissing monitors, some AB and some D, coming back to the choice of a cheap, noisy amp chip. Less noisy ones are available in both classes, but tend to cost a bit more for the same power output. As to why make a noiser model, who knows? It could be a calculated decision (we did the research - customers buy based on watts not noise level, so use that one) or a stupid mistake (what do you mean nobody put noise level on the design brief?! Too late now - we'll have to go with it and fix it in the next model) or who knows what else. Given that it's a widespread issue in the market segment my guess is it's a conscious design trade off not a mistake. What it certainly isn't down to is class D being inherently noisy, as comparing a range of amp datasheets of both types will show.

 

[relmu]

I have 2 krk rp5 g2 and with the volume at maximum it is totally silent. It should be noted that this model has A / B amplifiers (tda2052 tweeter and tda7294 woofer

 

[q3cpma]

you sure this was not a defective monitor?
I only know the first rokit version and it makes no noise at all. why would you make a product worse? then I heard about rokit hiss when d class line came out. so i deduced that the class d is the culprit

As said, Genelec and Neumann make for good counter-examples. Genelec's documented noise actually went from 10 to 5 dB(A) at 1m when going from the class AB LM3886 to their own class D design.

 

[olymind1]

RCF Ayra PROs barely have any hiss, they have but it's very gentle and barely hearable and only from a few cm in a quiet room. The JBL 305p MKIIs have a much noticeable hiss, compared to them the Ayra PROs are dead silent from a 1m listening position.

 

[2020]

RCF Ayra PROs barely have any hiss, they have but it's very gentle and barely hearable and only from a few cm in a quiet room. The JBL 305p MKIIs have a much noticeable hiss, compared to them the Ayra PROs are dead silent from a 1m listening position.

I saw these speakers listed on BHphotovideo a while ago and while nobody talks about them, or even knows they exist, I think they look like already a good competitor to the JBL's. They are front ported! Horn design! Proprietary 0 degrees of phase distortion technology? I look at these first unless you really want that fancy Tweeter from JBL.

 

[dasdoing]

I saw these speakers listed on BHphotovideo a while ago and while nobody talks about them, or even knows they exist, I think they look like already a good competitor to the JBL's. They are front ported! Horn design! Proprietary 0 degrees of phase distortion technology? I look at these first unless you really want that fancy Tweeter from JBL.

wow, a huge waveeguide that actualy looks good (JBLs are ugly af imo).
0 degrees phase tech is a linear phase (FiR) step response correction filter https://www.rcf.it/read-more/firphase

 

[LTig]

RCF Ayra PROs barely have any hiss, they have but it's very gentle and barely hearable and only from a few cm in a quiet room. The JBL 305p MKIIs have a much noticeable hiss, compared to them the Ayra PROs are dead silent from a 1m listening position.

Pity that RCF does not publish proper specs. In this respect they have a long way to go to reach the level of the masters.

 

[dasdoing]

Pity that RCF does not publish proper specs. In this respect they have a long way to go to reach the level of the masters.

https://www.rcf.it/c/document_libra...00a-00a8-4d18-9c62-c67c065db75a&groupId=20195
https://www.rcf.it/c/document_libra...31b-687e-43c7-b4af-720171add859&groupId=20195
https://www.rcf.it/c/document_libra...be4-4029-4957-8c60-8f7a622ec7b2&groupId=20195

 

[Biblob]

@amirm a RCF Ayra Pro 6 is €177 here in Holland. Care to buy one and test one? It has some interesting features, as you can read here (link to manufacturer):

• 5Hz – 20kHz Frequency Response
• 0° Phase Response
• 80W + 40W Class-D Amplifiers
• 6.5” Composite Fiberglass Woofer
• 1” ferrofluid cooled Soft Dome tweeter
• RCF Precision Waveguide
• DSP Processing with FiRPHASE
• Low distortion frontal Vented Port

 

[LTig]

Pity that RCF does not publish proper specs. In this respect they have a long way to go to reach the level of the masters.

https://www.rcf.it/c/document_libra...00a-00a8-4d18-9c62-c67c065db75a&groupId=20195
https://www.rcf.it/c/document_libra...31b-687e-43c7-b4af-720171add859&groupId=20195
https://www.rcf.it/c/document_libra...be4-4029-4957-8c60-8f7a622ec7b2&groupId=20195

I've seen those. These are not proper specs:

• frequency range without limits (e.g +/- 3 dB) means nothing; no on axis or off axis frequency response
• max SPL without THD means nothing, and we know that it depends on frequency; no max SPL at given THD vs. frequency
• max amp power withoud THD means nothing.
• no spinorama or dispersion vs. frequency

 

[dasdoing]

I've seen those. These are not proper specs:

• frequency range without limits (e.g +/- 3 dB) means nothing; no on axis or off axis frequency response
• no spinorama or dispersion vs. frequency

see graphs at the end

 

[trl]

wow, a huge waveeguide that actualy looks good (JBLs are ugly af imo).
0 degrees phase tech is a linear phase (FiR) step response correction filter https://www.rcf.it/read-more/firphase

Now this is something that I would really want to see it for myself:

​

Perhaps with 1KHz it might look pretty similar, but going down to 100 Hz the woofer will be unable to produce the square-wave this way. However, RCF guys seem to look for sound accuracy, so maybe we'll see this year an RCF speaker tested here as well.

 

[LTig]

see graphs at the end

??? Couldn't find any graphs, using PDF reader on my smartphone.

 

[somebodyelse]

??? Couldn't find any graphs, using PDF reader on my smartphone.

Frequency response on axis, horizontal and vertical beamwidth vs. frequency, normalised horizontal and vertical off axis response at a range of angles, dirctivity index vs. frequency, horizontal and vertical polar plots for a load of frequencies.