Review and Measurements of Bluesound NODE 2i Streamer

[blodsbror]

Did I miss it, or was the output impedance measured on the RCA's, just so I can match it with my amps input impedance?

 

[XeNoNF50]

For impedance matching, also as a low noise input buffer, a poorly matched output stage may affect sound quality dynamics. From personal experience I have noticed a well matched preamp in the chain 'may' improve sound, it has in the case with my current and a few previous amps.

The blue sound is pretty decent to get back to the topic it's slightly lacking in comparison to my es9038pro dac, it sounds pretty close to the d50s (flicking quickly between the two DACs )

(once again subjective, just a post to help people who are thinking about buying a bluesound node)

That is interesting. As I am connecting this to my headphone amp and also my speakers, one will go from the RCA and one will go from coax to a d50s DAC. Will A/B both methods on the head amp to see which I prefer.

 

[tomstoll]

Goal:

Stream Amazon UHD music, up to 24 bit 192kz , to my HDI 3800s:

after reading this thread and googling what else is out there i think i have a path forward.

let me know if this makes sense or have a better Idea.

Node 2i ->(coax) DAC(topping 30?) ->(RCA) denon x3600 ->(speaker cable) HDI3800?

i think the denon x3600 downsamples to 44kz if using audessey x32t but if i dont use it im assuming i can stream at higher sample size?

i tried the HEOS app direct and while it does accomplish the above, the user experience leaves much to be desired.

am i on the right path?

any other DACs to include in my review?

try as i might, i couldnt find any other streamer/dac combo that supported Amazon HD at full UHD rates

 

[REK2575]

@tomstoll

Seems to me that setup would work fine. I have a similar set-up and have been using it without any problems for nearly a year:

Node2i ->(coax) Sabaj D5 ->(RCA) Yamaha A-S301 ->speakers

I stream Qobuz rather than Amazon HD, but I don't see why the results would be any different for you. You're not dealing with Tidal and the issues (to put it as neutrally as possible) that MQA introduces.

You're going RCA from your Topping DAC to your Denon receiver, so there shouldn't be any issue with downsampling.

I might recommend a hardwire ethernet connection from your modem to the Node2i -- that's what I'm using though I suspect wireless connection would work perfectly fine as well.

The BluOS app for the Node2i is pretty good -- can't say I love it, but it's very reliable and usable. Just lacks a certain panache.

 

[tomstoll]

Thanks Rek that was i was the feedback i was hoping for.

ill report back my findings.

 

[BobPM]

I had the node 2 analog going to my Marantz SR-7008, and since I was using the DSP, was unhappy with the sound. I think this was due to the conversion back to digital inside the receiver. It sounded better (no blind testing) going into the receiver via coax.

Nevertheless, what is the purpose of the topping or Sabaj if the analog signal is converted back to digital in the receiver? You are really at the mercy of the ADC stage even if the signal is bit perfect going in. Moreover, for true transparency there must be some inherent degradation in that DAC -> Analog -> ADC step. If it goes in digital, the conversion for bit rates should be almost 100% accurate, and the sound will be dependent on the final DAC stage.

 

[REK2575]

@BobPM -- thanks for this -- this may be due to my relative inexperience, but I thought feeding analog from the Sabaj DAC to my Yamaha amp meant that the Sabaj did the converting, then the amp just takes the already-converted-to-analog signal, amplifies it and sends it to my speakers - ?

 

[tomstoll]

I had the node 2 analog going to my Marantz SR-7008, and since I was using the DSP, was unhappy with the sound. I think this was due to the conversion back to digital inside the receiver. It sounded better (no blind testing) going into the receiver via coax.

Nevertheless, what is the purpose of the topping or Sabaj if the analog signal is converted back to digital in the receiver? You are really at the mercy of the ADC stage even if the signal is bit perfect going in. Moreover, for true transparency there must be some inherent degradation in that DAC -> Analog -> ADC step. If it goes in digital, the conversion for bit rates should be almost 100% accurate, and the sound will be dependent on the final DAC stage.

i was assuming the topping DAC > Denon's x3600 internal DAC and you could bypass the final analog -> digital conversion somehow with the denon.

From Denon Manual

Direct - this mode plays back audio as recorded in the source.

From the Denon Thread
quoting peng:

If you believe in the Benchmark's better SINAD will make a difference, you may also believe resampling to 48 kHz by the Denon (if you use Audyssey, would make a difference too. So while you can do such connections, you have to make a choice based on what you believe. If you already have the stuff, you can always try it and see if you prefer the results of one vs the other. For me, I have no doubt it is better to just connect the DAC RCA output to the 3600 and 3600 to the power amp (if you need more power). Also note that using analog input of the 3600 and have Audyssey on, the signal would also go through the ADC/DAC path in the Denon, but the good thing is, Amir's measurements show that the ADC (he said he measured analog input with and without engaging direct/pure direct mode) did not degrade the signal in terms of SINAD so I guess the ADC isn't the bottleneck in the signal path, I have no idea why, may be Denon substituted the ADC in the 3600 with a better one though that would be highly unlikely. That is a big puzzle for me.., but I would like to believe the good news even though it really would defy logic/science lol..

 

[BobPM]

If you are going into the Yamaha A-S301, I think you are right and either the topping or sabaj would be an improvement since the node's DACs aren't great. If you are going into the Denon, then it really depends on using the pass through Direct mode thereby bypassing DSP. Honestly, my main room needs the DSP and sounds much better with it than it does in direct mode. Room correction, in my opinion, provides greater benefits than the more subtle differences in DACs.

My study has a Freya + into an NC400 amp, and will hopefully benefit from a better DAC. Thinking the new Modius Maximus (I don't like tweaking, and its more plugin and forget than the Soncoz.)

 

[REK2575]

I do have 'Pure Direct' enabled on the A-S301, so I assume it's doing its job and just taking the analog signal from the Sabaj and sending it directly to my speakers.

There is a noticeable improvement using the Sabaj. I originally had analog direct from the Node 2i to the amp. Sound was, well, fine -- a little dull, definitely nothing spectacular. When I introduced the Sabaj into the mix, the sound was pretty clearly enhanced -- a bit richer, a bit more detail. I definitely do not have 'golden ears,' but the Node 2i's DAC is really pretty terrible, per Amir's measurements. I bought the Sabaj D5 before I saw Amir's report, where it did quite well. So it makes sense that even my mediocre ears could hear the difference between a bad DAC (Node 2i) and a good one (the Sabaj's ESS chip).

 

[tomstoll]

which dac is "better" the topping d30 or the internal DAC to the denonx 3600?

 

[REK2575]

Given how badly most home theater / stereo receivers have fared in Amir's tests, if I had to guess, I'd definitely put my money on the Topping having the better DAC.

 

[tomstoll]

I’ll have to compare the numbers but I think the x3600 measured pretty well.

 

[REK2575]

You're correct -- the X3600 did better than most AV receivers --https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/denon-avr-x3600h-av-receiver-review.12676/

And I guess the Topping D30 is getting a little long in the tooth at this point. Have you looked at the E30? It did quite well in Amir's testing and is inexpensive: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/

 

[tomstoll]

i had ordered an d30 by accident. ill have to double check the measurements vs the x3600 now i guess.

 

[tomstoll]

OI connected my node 2i via both coax and rca to my denon. Crappy rca cable that came with the node 2i and a leftover rca audio cable that I rePurposed for coax digital

source was masters(mqa)tidal tacks, Nora Jones to be specific

I preferred the coax.

The rca were what I would call slightly muffled on the higher frequencies. Coax sounded clearer too
is this a function of cables or Dacs?

Lots of variables here but wanted to see if I could tell a difference.
Need to pick a dac for next round of listening.

 

[iLoveCats]

OI connected my node 2i via both coax and rca to my denon. Crappy rca cable that came with the node 2i and a leftover rca audio cable that I rePurposed for coax digital

source was masters(mqa)tidal tacks, Nora Jones to be specific

I preferred the coax.

The rca were what I would call slightly muffled on the higher frequencies. Coax sounded clearer too
is this a function of cables or Dacs?

Lots of variables here but wanted to see if I could tell a difference.
Need to pick a dac for next round of listening.

The COAX connection uses your Denon DAC.

 

[iLoveCats]

so when your D30 shows up you will need to go COAX from the Node2i to the D30 and RCA from the D30 to an analog input on the Denon to hear the D30 DAC

 

[tomstoll]

so when your D30 shows up you will need to go COAX from the Node2i to the D30 and RCA from the D30 to an analog input on the Denon to hear the D30 DAC

Yeah that part I get.

I was just noting the difference I could tell between the denon dac vs node 2i Dac
Changed my mind about the d30 and will look more

 

[JohnKay]

Yeah that part I get.

I was just noting the difference I could tell between the denon dac vs node 2i Dac
Changed my mind about the d30 and will look more

Is the Denon digitising the RCA analogue input? I know some AVRs do that so in essence, the analogue input is converted to digital before converted back to analogue internally... in this case I suspect that using the AVR's coaxial (digital) input avoids all this double conversion...
Not sure if this is the case with your AVR though.