Old Formula 1 video. Nearly an hour long so only watch if you are interested in fairly historic F1. May be spoiled for some by me being in it

[carlob]

Of course Fiat are in Turin, as is the Italian National Automobile Museum, where I took the first two pictures posted above. It’s an amazing place, especially the hall full of Lancia rally cars. We’ve been on many holidays driving around Italy and have popped into Maranello, which was quite something. Once drove back to London from Florence, getting too old for that.

I did once, from Rome to London stopping in France. That was before the tunnel, not going to do it again

 

[Feargal]

I suspect social media and the way the news media reports now also has a big effect on how the drivers respond in public, over the radio or in interviews (watched over by their media coach/PR). Say the wrong thing and they get slaughtered. It's sad and has really taken a lot of the fun and character out of F1. Look back to Graham Hill etc. and they were terrific fun and very eloquent.

 

[carlob]

F1 cars are heavy, boring and too easy to drive compared to the past. Too much aero and downforce makes impossible for the following car to overtake and they make a ****** sound, this is just ridicolous we now have F1 cars that are noiseless. Couple that with new tracks designed by Herman Tilke which are horrible for overtaking. Moreover idiotic rules and regulations give pilots a penality if they battle, safety cars all over, virtual safety cars, the "halo" thing, they don't race on wet, etc.

I really don't understand why F1 is keeping up at alienating its fan base, seems that they want to remove every single thing that is important for a fan. Give us back the noise at least!

 

[carlob]

music

 

[Thomas savage]

Probably in their contract.
Ron Dennis started it at McLaren back in the 1980s because he was pissed off with drivers sometimes slagging off the team straight after then race for something that turned out later to be unavoidable but had then been broadcast.

Good optics for driver and constructor. Appearing to be humble seems to be the number one concern for sportsmen these days, and the number one con.

 

[Soniclife]

I suspect social media and the way the news media reports now also has a big effect on how the drivers respond in public, over the radio or in interviews (watched over by their media coach/PR). Say the wrong thing and they get slaughtered. It's sad and has really taken a lot of the fun and character out of F1. Look back to Graham Hill etc. and they were terrific fun and very eloquent.

People have been making that complaint for a lot longer than social media and rolling news have existed about all sorts of sports stars. Serious fitness and nutrition needs have killed the smoking, drinking and partying, the media commitments probably make almost anyone seem boring, such tediously repetitive questions, they cannot all be Kimi.

 

[HammerSandwich]

The difference between drivers tends to be less than the difference between the cars though.

You must know better than I do, but that appears more true for a single qualifying lap than a full season's points. Each decade, one or two drivers seem much more capable of adjusting to a not-ideal car, bouncing back from mistakes/ill luck, and consistently performing at a high level each weekend.

 

[Feargal]

People have been making that complaint for a lot longer than social media and rolling news have existed about all sorts of sports stars. Serious fitness and nutrition needs have killed the smoking, drinking and partying, the media commitments probably make almost anyone seem boring, such tediously repetitive questions, they cannot all be Kimi.

Well true, and to be brutally honest a lot of top sportspeople aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the box when it comes to expressing themselves (I can help feeling more so nowadays) so perhaps they need to be regulated to a certain extent just in case the humble facade drops. I can't listen to driver interviews on TV any more as they're generally so tedious.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Too much aero and downforce makes impossible for the following car to overtake

This is commonly reported by journalists and drivers but this is something that hasn't changed much for the last 40 years or so.
The car behind always loses downforce and, funnily enough, because the loss of momentum in the wake is due to the horsepower the aero loss behind the car has doubled since the early 80s simply because of engine power. Fact but never discussed.
Peter Wright did an analysis decades ago which showed the 2 reasons overtaking was difficult was the aero effect, because of the loss of the car behind and high grip tyres because the braking distance is so short (braking distance is only effected by grip not brake material).
drivers like driving with sticky tyres so we never had success controlling that part.
It is even worse in races. By half race distance the racing line is so rubbered in and so much tyre detritus off-line overtaking gets even more difficult.
Drivers say more grip makes overtaking easier, but both theory and practice do not confirm this.
If more grip was better, by implication, the very worst races would be in the wet where grip is less and they are always the best in fact.
The physics is clear but the politics is strong.

 

[Frank Dernie]

You must know better than I do, but that appears more true for a single qualifying lap than a full season's points. Each decade, one or two drivers seem much more capable of adjusting to a not-ideal car, bouncing back from mistakes/ill luck, and consistently performing at a high level each weekend.

My point wasn't the lack of exceptional drivers, ther eare always one or two, but the car makes more difference than they do.
How many World Championships would Michael Schumacher have won in a Minardi?
None.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Well true, and to be brutally honest a lot of top sportspeople aren't exactly the sharpest tools in the box when it comes to expressing themselves (I can help feeling more so nowadays) so perhaps they need to be regulated to a certain extent just in case the humble facade drops. I can't listen to driver interviews on TV any more as they're generally so tedious.

F1 drivers are not well equipped for public speaking.
The two things which really stick out in the exceptional drivers I have been lucky enough to work with is they are both very intelligent and introvert. Unintelligent but otherwise quick drivers don't win as much as they should, extroverts crash a lot.
All of them have to come up with some sort of strategy to deal with the pain any introvert feels in the public eye, they are rarely the people they seem in public.

 

[carlob]

My point wasn't the lack of exceptional drivers, ther eare always one or two, but the car makes more difference than they do.
How many World Championships would Michael Schumacher have won in a Minardi?
None.

And if you have the best car even a mediocre driver like Bottas could become a World Champion

 

[Frank Dernie]

And if you have the best car even a mediocre driver like Bottas could become a World Champion

None of the drivers who make it as far as F1 are mediocre in any sense of the word. They are all stunningly talented, just some more than others.

 

[carlob]

None of the drivers who make it as far as F1 are mediocre in any sense of the word. They are all stunningly talented, just some more than others.

Well, in relative terms if compared with others. Also those cars generate a lot of g-force as cornering speed is amazing (so you need to be fit to drive them) but they are not comparable to the past, much easier to drive and with the new rules will be even easier (and wider!)

 

[Soniclife]

F1 drivers are not well equipped for public speaking.
The two things which really stick out in the exceptional drivers I have been lucky enough to work with is they are both very intelligent and introvert. Unintelligent but otherwise quick drivers don't win as much as they should, extroverts crash a lot.
All of them have to come up with some sort of strategy to deal with the pain any introvert feels in the public eye, they are rarely the people they seem in public.

That's a really interesting insight, thanks.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Well, in relative terms if compared with others. Also those cars generate a lot of g-force as cornering speed is amazing (so you need to be fit to drive them) but they are not comparable to the past, much easier to drive and with the new rules will be even easier (and wider!)

The most unstable cars were the flat bottom rule up to the death of Senna. The rule changes after that accident made them better, then the 2009 rules made them much more stable. I guess that means they are easier to keep near the limit.
Cars were not limited in width when I started. A max width rule was brought in in 1976 and it stayed until 1998 when they got around 20 cm narrower. Are they going back to the classic width? That would make the aero easier, at least 50% of work on open wheel cars is reducing the damage caused by wheel wakes.

 

[Thomas savage]

The most unstable cars were the flat bottom rule up to the death of Senna. The rule changes after that accident made them better, then the 2009 rules made them much more stable. I guess that means they are easier to keep near the limit.
Cars were not limited in width when I started. A max width rule was brought in in 1976 and it stayed until 1998 when they got around 20 cm narrower. Are they going back to the classic width? That would make the aero easier, at least 50% of work on open wheel cars is reducing the damage caused by wheel wakes.

That's interesting as as a fan I remember seeing that plank under that car ( after Senna's accident?) and thinking how low tech and non F1 it was .

 

[carlob]

I read somewhere that 2021 - now 2022 I believe - rules are going to increase the width which should be 2000mm now, for sure the rear wing will be bigger. Also 18" rims.

 

[Frank Dernie]

That's interesting as as a fan I remember seeing that plank under that car ( after Senna's accident?) and thinking how low tech and non F1 it was .

The "plank" was just a way to make sure the flat part of the cars were not in the least stable (but highest downforce) region and to give the authorities a way to measure whether you were or not.
With 1mm front ride height representing 0.1 secs it was worth doing everything one could. I used a preloaded stay at the front of the floor set so it stayed to length on the FIA test rig but compressed when the skid touched the floor without exceeding the wear limit
I got about 5 to 7 mm lower that way - a winning margin.

 

[carlob]

That's interesting as as a fan I remember seeing that plank under that car ( after Senna's accident?) and thinking how low tech and non F1 it was .

I believe they still use the plank but now it's made of resin - no wood anymore.