Revel F208 Tower Speaker Review

[carlob]

In this particular case I absolutely agree fully with Dr. Toole. One cannot judge sound quality based on in-room response. Whatever curve sounds the best will depend on acoustics, dispersion, listening distance etc.
Room target is a myth and the biggest misunderstanding in audio, imo.

Agreed but all the EQ systems around (Dirac, Audissey, ARC etc.) do exactly that, take your in-room response and correct that to a target curve. If you use REW+Rephase to generate a filter you are still correcting to an "arbitrary" target curve.

 

[Absolute]

Yes, by default they all do. Which is why, I presume, no one ever seems quite satisfied with the results. In most cases you can limit the correction to a frequency and then they just apply a broadband tone-control above that to get the spl aligned with the corrected area.

Dirac can be very aggressive or very gentle depending on how you measure, so that's something to keep in mind. Sounds alot better to me when you measure quite wide and some variances in height as well than it does when you measure only a small area, or worse, a single point.

 

[quorzar]

3. my favourite is 20hz to 20khz, +2db to -6db or end in -3db. depends on track/genre. or 20hz to 200hz flat and then -6db or -3db to 20khz

 

[QMuse]

Yes, by default they all do. Which is why, I presume, no one ever seems quite satisfied with the results. In most cases you can limit the correction to a frequency and then they just apply a broadband tone-control above that to get the spl aligned with the corrected area.

Dirac can be very aggressive or very gentle depending on how you measure, so that's something to keep in mind. Sounds alot better to me when you measure quite wide and some variances in height as well than it does when you measure only a small area, or worse, a single point.

Well, at the end FR curve is a personal preference thing. How does your look like?

 

[RichB]

I used to own F208. Studio 2, and Salon 2. The packing for F208 is terrible. They better have stronger boxes and foams like Studio and Salon so it can be to unbox and rebox. The F208 bass is lower than the Salon 2. I would say 20% different. Same as Studio 2, can't get the bass as Salon 2....lol... I have listened to F228e a while back, it's awesome. If you have budget, go for F228Be instead of F208. Between F228Be and Studio 2, I refer F228Be even though the price is not much different.

The F208 does not have better bass than the Salon2’s. Harman provides the measurement and specifications.

- Rich

 

[tuga]

The F208 does not have better bass than the Salon2’s. Harman provides the measurement and specifications.

- Rich

What do you mean by "better"?
Harmonic distortion?
Intermodulation distortion?
Balance?
Extension?
Maximum SPL?
Group delay?
Bass reflex loading?
Cabinet resonances?
Port noise?
...
Amount of air moved?
Toe-tapping ability?
Level of trouser-flapping?
PRaTiness?
Spinoramity?

 

[carlob]

Yes, by default they all do. Which is why, I presume, no one ever seems quite satisfied with the results. In most cases you can limit the correction to a frequency and then they just apply a broadband tone-control above that to get the spl aligned with the corrected area.

Dirac can be very aggressive or very gentle depending on how you measure, so that's something to keep in mind. Sounds alot better to me when you measure quite wide and some variances in height as well than it does when you measure only a small area, or worse, a single point.

But at the end of the day it's you dialing in a target curve (or you can accept the default one) so it's subjectively adjusted to your taste. Now you can use an "Harman curve" or whatever but even with the Harman one you could change the slope

The F208 does not have better bass than the Salon2’s. Harman provides the measurement and specifications.

- Rich

And the F228Be have the same bass extension of the F208. F228Be improve in other areas, like directivity at crossover etc.

 

[Absolute]

Well, at the end FR curve is a personal preference thing. How does your look like?

I don't know what to think about that. Yes and no, I suppose. Research clearly indicates that it's not really a personal preference thing, but a surprisingly universal one where we seem to agree in controlled testing that whatever the curve is that comes from a neutral speaker playing in a random room is preferred/highly rated.

I agree that it's a preference whether or not you should add a few dB tilt one or the other way, but not that you should change the character of a speaker by conforming to a predefined curve which may or may not have any resemblance to the speaker's natural response in that room.

My curves look very good under dimmed lights

You've seen the MMM curves, but maybe not the one-point measurement. I don't have it on my phone, but I did experiment with it yesterday trying to EQ in a better response in the 100-300 hz area. WHile it ended up very pretty in that point, it ended up sounding way too thick in the same area. The resulting room curve was pretty much -10 dB from 20 to 20 000hz and very pretty

The MMM showed that the same 100-300 hz area had too much oomph, which is not surprising to you or me I guess.

I'm finding that both Dirac and Audiolense sounds better with multiple points measurements, and the same does my manual EQ. But I'd like more datapoints than me, myself and I can produce.

 

[Absolute]

But at the end of the day it's you dialing in a target curve (or you can accept the default one) so it's subjectively adjusted to your taste. Now you can use an "Harman curve" or whatever but even with the Harman one you could change the slope


And the F228Be have the same bass extension of the F208. F228BeView attachment 64199 improve in other areas, like directivity at crossover etc.

I wonder how much of that "improved clarity" of the Be comes from that 2 dB increase in SPL from 700-5000 hz and not the beryllium in itself?
Looking at the CSD it looks like most of the beryllium stuff have increased "hash" or noise in them compared to normal drivers. Is that the "resolution" perhaps?

Mind wanders off.

 

[QMuse]

My curves look very good under dimmed lights

I was kind of hoping you would post them, not only talk about them.

 

[carlob]

I wonder how much of that "improved clarity" of the Be comes from that 2 dB increase in SPL

$2500/dB it's a bit steep

 

[quorzar]

MiniDSP SHD -> Hypex NC400 Mono KIT -> Revel F208, Dirac 20Hz to 20kHz, +2dB to -6dB, really bad room
New listening position ... first Dirac test. Some work to do ...

 

[RichB]

What do you mean by "better"?
Harmonic distortion?
Intermodulation distortion?
Balance?
Extension?
Maximum SPL?
Group delay?
Bass reflex loading?
Cabinet resonances?
Port noise?
...
Amount of air moved?
Toe-tapping ability?
Level of trouser-flapping?
PRaTiness?
Spinoramity?

All of the above

Actually, I was referring to the Revel specifications:

Salon2:
Crossover Frequencies Four-way, high-order acoustic response @150 Hz, 575 Hz, and 2.3 kHz
Low Frequency Extension -10 dB at 17 Hz -6 dB at 20 Hz -3 dB at 23 Hz
Sensitivity 86.4 dB

Studio2:
Crossover Frequencies Three-way, high-order acoustic response @ 230 Hz and 2 kHz
Low Frequency Extension -10 dB at 21 Hz -6 dB at 25 Hz -3 dB at 32 Hz
Sensitivity 87.7 dB SPL

F328Be:
Crossover frequencies 240Hz; 2.1kHz
Low-frequency extension 24Hz (-10dB); 26Hz (-6dB); 35Hz (-3dB)
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 91 dB

F228Be:
Crossover Frequencies 260Hz; 2.1kHz
Low-frequency extension: 23Hz (–10dB); 27Hz (–6dB); 31Hz (–3dB)
Sensitivity 90dB

F226Be:
Crossover frequencies 260Hz; 2.1kHz
Low-frequency extension 38Hz (–10dB); 44Hz (–6dB); 50Hz (–3dB)
Sensitivity 90 dB

In floor standing speakers, the Performa series requires half the power of the Ultima2.
That is not the whole story. The Salon2's dip below 4 ohms and I suspect that they are harder to drive.
If you don't drive them with an amplifier that remains linear under load and difficult phase angles they will not perform to specification.
Very few AVRs are tested into these loads and will not drive them well.

The Ultima2 have down-firing ports. The F328Be that is rear ported. The F208 and F228Be are front ported.

- Rich

 

[vavan]

F228Be:
Crossover Frequencies 260Hz; 2.1kHz
Low-frequency extension: 23Hz (–10dB); 27Hz (–6dB); 31Hz (–3dB)

as we seen these lfe numbers are rather misleading

 

[YSDR]

The F208 and F228Be are front ported. Only the F328Be that is rear ported from the floorstanders.

 

[RichB]

The F208 and F228Be are front ported. Only the F328Be that is rear ported from the floorstanders.

Thanks, I have corrected the post.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

as we seen these lfe numbers are rather misleading

In what way?
They do not indicate bass headroom. Many speakers dip this low but will not provide significant increased output from their rating.
They have no headroom.

I see nothing to indicate that the F208's have woofers that outperform the Salon2's.

- Rich

 

[vavan]

In what way?

you quoted f208 specs that are in fact way too optimistic
revel states 38Hz (–10dB); 44Hz (–6dB); 50Hz (–3dB) for f228be and f208 is close to f228 WRT lfe

though with the help of the room corner sometimes f208 can produce decent output quite close down to specified 31Hz as can be seen in my measurement

 

[tuga]

All of the above

Actually, I was referring to the Revel specifications:

Those specs are pretty useless in describing the quality of the bass and sub-bass.

 

[RichB]

Those specs are pretty useless in describing the quality of the bass and sub-bass.

If the spec says there is little bass or sub-bass, it wont be there.
A 100 dB at 20 Hz, I doubt even the Salon2s could do that.

I think this conversation should begin with the goal. If LFE to 20 Hz is required, you'll need a sub.

- Rich