Topping D90 and RME ADI-2 FS

[AudioStudies]

I just got both of these DACs recently, really love them both. Thanks to finding this web site, I made the best possible decisions with respect to value for the money with the purchase of these two DACs. Prior to these coming in, I had been with an Enlightened Audio Design (EAD) DSP 7000 III (fully upgraded by Noble Electronics).
I will keep the EAD for playback of HDCD encoded discs.

The Topping D90 is perfect at its price point, having exemplary performance, both measured and in use within my system. The RME exhibits those traits and then ups the game considerably for a few hundred dollars more, with incredible features = bass/treble controls, a loudness setting, and even a 5-band parametric equalizer. The RME also includes a headphone amp that appears to be one of the best ones measured here at ASR. I highly recommend both of these DACs. I give my highest testament to three companies though, Topping, RME, and EAD. After all EAD built a DAC in the late 90s that didn't have me searching for another DAC until the year 2020.

I am only about half way through the learning curve on the RME, so would be very curious to hear from other owners regarding how you like it, how you use it, and how it can be used. I will be doing some of my listening through headphones on the RME and I have a pair of Audeze Sine closed-back, and I just ordered an open-back the Sennheiser 650 clone from Massdrop. I may want to invest in more cans too, so curious what others are using (and why).

Thanks,
Thomas

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Give some feelings about them when u can...is there difference in sound?

 

[AudioStudies]

Well, I haven't done any blind testing. They are both so damn good that it is hard to tell them apart. My subjective analysis then is that the Topping might error on the clean, cool side of neutral; whereas the RME though definitely not colored seems maybe just a hair warmer than the Topping and the timing seemed ever so slightly better with the RME. Both DACs are dead silent when they need to be silent. I love the RME ability to adjust things. Listening to Brubeck's Time Out album on Audeze Sine headphones, I upped the bass 3 dB and lowered the treble by 1.5 dB, and the whole presentation seemed better, even though it was great before the adjustment. I think it comes down to matter of affordability. I am fortunate enough that I could afford both of them. For those who can afford it, the approx $400 more for the RME is very much worth it, for the immense additional features and the built-in headphone amp (of very high quality). I am convinced that DAC technology has fully matured and that moving forward the competition will be in regard to features versus price; not improving upon the conversion. Both of these units allow for experimenting with different digital filter options, but it is hard to tell much difference among them.

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Ok, thank you........rme is pretty complete package.......... Two wishes for rme for next edition: room correction feature, mic input and so on....sweep the eq curve automatically.....and then AKM 4499.

 

[AudioStudies]

Only feature that Topping has and RME doesn't is Bluetooth, which I never use, so not of importance to me.

 

[ezra_s]

RME has awesome stuff like the autoref level on/off and relative volume adjustments to make the best of the line out settings, dozens of settings for those who like to constantly adjust things.

Want it to mute the line out when you plug headphones? ok, you don't like that? there are settings for that and more.

The more I use the RME, the more I like it, and confirming its great performance with an objective review just put a smile on my face because at first I was worried I had spent too much, and the manual.. it's awesome.

 

[AudioStudies]

Indeed. Lets just enjoy our units immensely; come to think of it, I don't think that I've discovered any faults at all with the RME !!! When I first unboxed it, the small screen scared me a bit as I thought it might be hard to read. But the colors and contrast of the screen are so superb that it is not hard to read. Yes, the manual explains WHY they did things the way they did. Superb headphone amp also, as confirmed by Amirm measurements. I don't have any IEMs, but for those who do, it has a dedicated IEM output designed specifically for IEMs. And who the hell wants Bluetooth, anyway? I don't think the RME ADI-2 FS is beatable anywhere near its price point, and perhaps not at any price point. Feels great to the touch -- both touching the unit and the knobs, it seems to exude its fine German engineering and build quality. Knobs (or rotary encoders as the manual calls them) turn with the perfect amount of response. This DAC is indeed, The Real McCoy, The Cat's Meow !!!

 

[Tks]

Bluetooth + Performance. The D90 takes it.

Everything else. The RME takes it

The DSP and options with the RME make everything else look like stone-age tools. Also the RME has an AMP section we aren't sure how good it is in reality (for the DAC and headphone section to measure equally, it means the amp portion is superior and is being bottlenecked by the DAC chip essentially).

The moment RME releases a 4499 RME ADI-3 for example, is when nearly all DACs become obsolete essentially. Adding bluetooth, a 4pin XLR-out, and perhaps expanding the DSP processing power (allowing something like 10 PEQ bands for example), and streaming (crosses fingers), it'll be game over.

People hoping for mic input though for room correction are a bit too hopeful I would imagine, that might come with the ADI-3 Pro or something that has ADC capability, I doubt they'll put that in their DAC line. But you never know, a build around the 4499 will allow them to enter in an entire new price bracket (I don't forsee the devices being any less than $2000). People should remember the 4490 version that exists today was beating devices with 4493 and 4497 DACs in performance metrics. A 4499 is just going to be something real special I imagine once they get their hands on it.

 

[ShiZo]

You're in a lucky position. The new version of rme adi 2 dac is unmeasured (coming soon though) so no one really knows which is better at this point.

Even if the 4499 has a lower noise floor lowering the overall sinad, all that really matters is loudest distortion products. If both the d90 and rme have no distortion above -130 db (likely even lower, but that's my benchmark for sota atm) then it's going to come down to the other tests (IMD, multitone test, etc).

 

[nj75f]

@AudioStudies
What amplifier do you use? You could connect the amplifier to the topping and then to the rme dac and than make a sound comparison.
You could also compare the built-in amplifier of the rme to another connected to the topping.

I'd be very interested if and how different they sound in characteristics.
You could post on head-fi.org or here if you want.
Thanks!

 

[ShiZo]

Yeah, I wish I could blind test them both through my hpa4, especially during this quarantine.

 

[jae]

Bluetooth + Performance. The D90 takes it.
The moment RME releases a 4499 RME ADI-3 for example, is when nearly all DACs become obsolete essentially. Adding bluetooth, a 4pin XLR-out, and perhaps expanding the DSP processing power (allowing something like 10 PEQ bands for example), and streaming (crosses fingers), it'll be game over.

People hoping for mic input though for room correction are a bit too hopeful I would imagine, that might come with the ADI-3 Pro or something that has ADC capability, I doubt they'll put that in their DAC line. But you never know, a build around the 4499 will allow them to enter in an entire new price bracket (I don't forsee the devices being any less than $2000). People should remember the 4490 version that exists today was beating devices with 4493 and 4497 DACs in performance metrics. A 4499 is just going to be something real special I imagine once they get their hands on it.

That would be end game if they could do these things. An all-in-one first class headamp/preamp, dac, streamer, and mic interface in one. One thing that bothers me is that the output performance of the RME DAC is better than the PRO at a lower price point, essentially making the PRO 'redundant' for anything but the ADC capabilities- dacs at a fraction of the price are now competing with those specs too. In addition to that, the PRO cannot be used as a preamp/interface for XLR microphones so it has a very limited use case in what it does 'best'. To justify the price the PRO needs to be on par or better than the DAC performance along with the ADC capabilities. If it could accept microphones I would buy it instantly as an all-in-one device, but I have a feeling it being used as a mic interface would make it too 'good' of a product, and it would cannibalize too many other RME studio products if it had good performance. I suspect that's probably the reason why the PRO doesn't accept mics in the first place. Any new iteration of the DAC-only model definitely needs headphone balanced out.

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Also, if we are trying to find todays best stereo listening setup one intresting topic of investigation would be dac+active speakers vs active speakers with inbuilt dac...........everytime I hear kii three, D&D 8, or genelec glm I wonder can adi dac (for example) with good speakers compete or is there too much advantage when everything is optimized inside the speaker cabinet........cause in the end other one is better......and that makes the other solution obsolete after a while.....if dac+speaker looses, then I would like to skip the dac game all together and consentrate upcoming all in one solutions....

 

[th0m]

I think some features, like for instance balanced headphone output and streaming, are unlikely in future RME products. Simply because their main focus is still pro gear, plus they are a very science-based company and they seem to ignore all audiophile "fads" with no real documented benefits, such as balanced headphones. A 10-band EQ would be nice though.

 

[AudioStudies]

Thanks everyone !! As far as what Amp, I am going into powered monitors at the moment. It would be great if they do improve upon this RME but I love it the way it is. Remember, I am replacing a DAC from the . . . eh hum . . . late 90s (EAD). Very discouraging though to hear about the shortcomings of the Pro unit, it might be nice to own something with those features. I have an Engineering background, but it has nothing to do with EE or DSP, so I am grateful for a site like ASR with many of you "in the know". I am going to keep both of these DACs because I maintain multiple systems in my home. I think these two DACs are THE clearly defined price points, for value for the money. The RME costs a bit more but quite frankly (unless you need Bluetooth) is in a league of its own. I have about 60GB of HDCD encoded music, so although I seriously doubt it will ever happen, I would like to see a modern affordable DAC released with HDCD. I sure as hell can't afford the new Berkeley . . .

 

[ReaderZ]

Also, if we are trying to find todays best stereo listening setup one intresting topic of investigation would be dac+active speakers vs active speakers with inbuilt dac...........everytime I hear kii three, D&D 8, or genelec glm I wonder can adi dac (for example) with good speakers compete or is there too much advantage when everything is optimized inside the speaker cabinet........cause in the end other one is better......and that makes the other solution obsolete after a while.....if dac+speaker looses, then I would like to skip the dac game all together and consentrate upcoming all in one solutions....

It can do some of the GLM staff, but much harder on the user and not as powerful as it's 5 band only. It simply cannot do what D&D 8C or Kii three do, no external device can.

And if you have the budget, I don't see why not skip DAC and go for DSP speaker with digital input. I did not because of budget restraint only.

 

[Oukkidoukki]

Yes, I don't have budget either.....but there are similar solutions with less money..........probably hard to test the quality though.......i am waiting smsl su 8 kind of package from combined dac speakers section....we see

 

[richpjr]

That would be end game if they could do these things. An all-in-one first class headamp/preamp, dac, streamer, and mic interface in one. One thing that bothers me is that the output performance of the RME DAC is better than the PRO at a lower price point, essentially making the PRO 'redundant' for anything but the ADC capabilities- dacs at a fraction of the price are now competing with those specs too. In addition to that, the PRO cannot be used as a preamp/interface for XLR microphones so it has a very limited use case in what it does 'best'. To justify the price the PRO needs to be on par or better than the DAC performance along with the ADC capabilities. If it could accept microphones I would buy it instantly as an all-in-one device, but I have a feeling it being used as a mic interface would make it too 'good' of a product, and it would cannibalize too many other RME studio products if it had good performance. I suspect that's probably the reason why the PRO doesn't accept mics in the first place. Any new iteration of the DAC-only model definitely needs headphone balanced out.

I would guess this is the same reason why the Pro does not support TotalMix.

 

[AudioStudies]

They have an FS version of the Pro now available only in black and with a remote. Does anyone know if that has the same drawbacks?

 

[ShiZo]

What I've really noticed is that channel separation is 120 on the dac vs 110 on the pro fs.