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Topping E30 DAC Review

kkeretic

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When E30 is connected in Pre mode, a slightly larger pop noise is output when switching between different bit rate songs.
Pop noise is generated even when the power is turned on / off.
It comes out regardless of the volume level of E30.
The noise level is a little disturbing, but you can ignore it and use it.

I have both D50s and D70. The D50s is good regarding pops, no "needle dropping" even when switching between different frequencies (except well known PCM 384kHz pop). D70 is also good if using RCA output. But if I use XLR to RCA (regardless of DAC/Preamp mode), it is popping/needle dropping but somewhat differently depending on the Foobar2000 output settings. For PCM frequencies above 96kHz it makes an audible pop (like needle drop) on every track change, even when jumping forward/backward inside the tracks. DSD is also problematic. Interestingly, if I set DSD transcoder plugin within Foobar2000 and output through the DSD:ASIO, DSD will work OK through the tracks once it switches frequency. And the display will constantly show the same frequency until frequency change. However. For PCM frequencies above 96kHz the content on the display changes every time I change tracks or jump forward/backward inside tracks. Since D70 also uses an AKM decoder as does the E30, for now I won't even touch the E30 with a stick. It smells like the same problem. But I believe it could be related to the Topping driver so maybe it could be fixed in some future release (somehow).

Edit: found out the problem is related to the SACD plugin. Some older versions (the one that is packed inside the Topping driver) actualy work and don't mess with sample rate change on playback start.
 
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Daverz

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My apologies, I forgot to turn off DRC on the music server, so my levels were wrong. The pop peaks at more like -50 dBFS.

Screen Shot 2020-05-06 at 11.52.38 PM.png
 

PyramidElectric

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And what do the others say? In turn, I have not yet met a single case of combining with a power amplifier without its volume control. If franspambot confirms that it has just such an amplifier, I will be extremely happy. because I was going to use it myself.
OK, but then you're putting out 'info' like this?: "Using Pre mode with a power amplifier without volume control is quite dangerous."
If you're going to make such bold claims (and if it's true, then you should absolutely be warning others) then please present evidence.
 

facboy

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@PyramidElectric I agree, there seems to be a lot of fear-mongering going on in this thread by people who don't even have the E30.

OK, we get it, you don't like the product, even though you don't have it and have never used it. You've said your bit enough times now.
 

conuss

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OK, but then you're putting out 'info' like this?: "Using Pre mode with a power amplifier without volume control is quite dangerous."
If you're going to make such bold claims (and if it's true, then you should absolutely be warning others) then please present evidence.
The proof is that so far no such case has been presented, everywhere after the E30 there is an amplifier with its own volume control. I was interested in this here, see the conclusions above. I repeat, why don't you provide a counter-statement in this case? Why don't you bring them?, we will be happy that the E30 in this case can be really correctly used as a pre-amplifier for volume control.
 

Daverz

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The proof is that so far no such case has been presented, everywhere after the E30 there is an amplifier with its own volume control. I was interested in this here, see the conclusions above. I repeat, why don't you provide a counter-statement in this case? Why don't you bring them?, we will be happy that the E30 in this case can be really correctly used as a pre-amplifier for volume control.

I posted earlier in the thread that I had tested the E30 with two amplifiers, a Bryston 3B-SST and an NHT Xda, neither of which has a volume control.

As a pre-amp, the E30 bahaves no differently than any other pre-amp except that it only goes up to unity gain. In a sense, it's safer than my tube pre-amp with 18 dB gain, which I have had accidents with when I sat on the volume control.
 

Jesus LIVErpool

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Considering buying the E30 and hooking it up to my S3000Pro. Should I be concerned regaring this pop issue???

I recently received mine and direct connection to the Amp I have a hum sound along the music at around 1/5 of the audio. Higher audio gain the hum is more apparent but as I have read here all depends on the brightness display. Higher brightness the hum is lower. The sound is great but i would recommend you the Topping D10 at half price. Not need of power cable.
 

conuss

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I posted earlier in the thread that I had tested the E30 with two amplifiers, a Bryston 3B-SST and an NHT Xda, neither of which has a volume control.

As a pre-amp, the E30 bahaves no differently than any other pre-amp except that it only goes up to unity gain. In a sense, it's safer than my tube pre-amp with 18 dB gain, which I have had accidents with when I sat on the volume control.
Wonderful! At the same time, you don't hear quality degradation at a lower-than-average volume due to bit loss?
Please explain the underlined quotation in other words...

I have already addressed this issue before:
@Illtrick
Please tell me which power amplifier you have? Is there noticeable degradation of sound at lower than average levels due to loss of bitness? Because a serviceable pre-amplifier and passive volume control would not allow this.
There was no response yet.
 
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PyramidElectric

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The proof is that so far no such case has been presented, everywhere after the E30 there is an amplifier with its own volume control. I was interested in this here, see the conclusions above. I repeat, why don't you provide a counter-statement in this case? Why don't you bring them?, we will be happy that the E30 in this case can be really correctly used as a pre-amplifier for volume control.
So because the specific use case that you want to know about has not been presented, you default to spreading an assumption ("Using Pre mode with a power amplifier without volume control is quite dangerous.") based on nothing more than your own feelings?
There's a range of opinions about this 'pop' sound from actual owners and users with first hand experience, and not one of them has said it is 'dangerous'. All of them state that it's much much quieter than any music signal level (and those measurements posted earlier support this).
Until you have either first hand experience with the E30 or can bring some other data/measurements/evidence the hysterical rantings about this add nothing to this conversation. (and this is the last I'll post about this).
 

conuss

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So because the specific use case that you want to know about has not been presented, you default to spreading an assumption ("Using Pre mode with a power amplifier without volume control is quite dangerous.") based on nothing more than your own feelings?
There's a range of opinions about this 'pop' sound from actual owners and users with first hand experience, and not one of them has said it is 'dangerous'. All of them state that it's much much quieter than any music signal level (and those measurements posted earlier support this).
Until you have either first hand experience with the E30 or can bring some other data/measurements/evidence the hysterical rantings about this add nothing to this conversation. (and this is the last I'll post about this).
You are very excited, so you did not notice that I am more confused by the loss of bit depth at low volume, which is not typical of a pre-amp, as stated by the manufacturer. Yes, this is a kind of danger to purchase, because it makes it impossible to use it comfortably! E30 in a power amplifier without power adjustment - that's what statistics are needed!, and not by adding a pre-amp in the path, because, I repeat, the E30 itself must be a full-fledged pre-amp!
 

odyo

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I bought E30 from Aliexpress Shenzenaudio store. Shipping is delayed couple of days. So i ask them what is going on and i've got interesting answer:

''We have processed the order for you. But we received a message that the technician wants to test the machine for a few more days, in order to get a better experience. ''

What this really means ? Is topping doing more QC work or something ?
 

Daverz

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Wonderful! At the same time, you don't hear quality degradation at a lower-than-average volume due to bit loss?

No, I don't hear any degradation. I probably don't go below about -35 dBFS very often, though. I think the bit-depth can go pretty low before you'd notice any audible issues. If you think about the situations that require excessive attenuation they are usually

1. Music is recorded at a very high average level with low dynamic range. Well, it already has low dynamic range.
2. Background level listening, thus not very discerning listening.
3. Sensitivity of your amp is much lower than output of your DAC, speakers are very sensitive, or both. Consider using some inline attenuators, a passive line stage, or a traditional pre-amp (all of which add their own self-noise).

Please explain the underlined quotation in other words...

Unity gain means a gain of 1X input (i.e. 0 dBFS). In other words, the digital volume control can only attenuate the input signal, not amplify it.

The downside is that you may run out of gas on some very low-level recordings and need more than unity gain. That's why I like amps that have at least a couple gain settings. My Bryston has a switch for 23 and 29 dB gain. If I stage things to usually work best with the lower gain setting, I still have +6 dB to play with. The Benchmark ABH has, IIRC, 4 different gain settings.
 

conuss

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What this really means ? Is topping doing more QC work or something ?
Topping tests products before shipping, but you may choose not to do so. Here's what I was told when I ordered: "We test the TOPPING E30 usually connect computer to test USB ,and connect DVD to test its Optical/Coaxial to see if all of them works well"
 

conuss

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In other words, the digital volume control can only attenuate the input signal, not amplify it.
Justifiably, your amps have a gain level switch, which makes it possible to use the E30 comfortably, unlike a simple power amp without such features. And additional equipment only worsens the quality. Only signal attenuation is also not sugar.. because, as stated, the E30 is a pre-amplifier, and the pre-amplifier and amplifies! ((
 
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odyo

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Topping tests products before shipping, but you may choose not to do so. Here's what I was told when I ordered: "We test the TOPPING E30 usually connect computer to test USB ,and connect DVD to test its Optical/Coaxial to see if all of them works well"
Well that is good then. I hope it's measurements are same as Amir's.
 

AndyLu

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I recently received mine and direct connection to the Amp I have a hum sound along the music at around 1/5 of the audio. Higher audio gain the hum is more apparent but as I have read here all depends on the brightness display. Higher brightness the hum is lower. The sound is great but i would recommend you the Topping D10 at half price. Not need of power cable.

As far as I know the E30 does not hum. If you experience a hum: Check your RCA cables for ground loops, or check any equipment in your audio chain. Also check your power supply. Normaly the E30 does not hum at all. A friend of mine who has the E30 does not here any hum either. Also on this forum I did not read anything about the E30 humming, except for one post. Later the same person of that post said that the hum was because of the cables he used. The hum you here probably comes from elsewhere and not from the DAC.
 
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Daverz

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Later the same person of that post said that the hum was because of the cables he used. The hum you here probably comes from elsewhere and not from the DAC.

I think that was me. I had a ground loop: amp and DAC plugged in to different circuits. Once plugged in to the same circuit there was no hum.
 

samsa

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At the same time, you don't hear quality degradation at a lower-than-average volume due to bit loss?

You have come to the wrong forum to peddle nonsense that lowering the bit depth degrades the "quality" of the signal.

The only effect of lowering the bit depth is to raise the noise floor (lower the SNR). Guess what? Lowering the volume with an analogue pot also lowers the SNR. In almost all cases (in particular, setting aside the pop issue), controlling the volume in the digital domain yields a better result.
 
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