Review and Measurements of Okto DAC8 8Ch DAC & Amp

[Kal Rubinson]

The DIYINHK-dac has also it's own ASIO-driver and this one is set as output in the dePhonica-program.

The Okto DAC8Pro will work with this driver.

 

[Kees Huizinga]

That's good news, thank you.

 

[da Choge]

The Okto DAC8Pro will work with this driver.

Kal - Looking forward to your review of the Okto DAC8Pro. I believe you were in line to get one, have you received it yet?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal - Looking forward to your review of the Okto DAC8Pro. I believe you were in line to get one, have you received it yet?

Yes.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello from Japan, Kees,

You wrote;
>I think it's a pity the Okto-dac has no (not yet) ASIO-driver.
I fully agree with you... I, we, do hope OKTO will soon develop dedicated and sophisticated ASIO for DAC8PRO. We may better to inform OKTO people, Pavel(?), regarding our demands for dedicated ASIO.

My DAC8PRO order number is 106, and just following yours at OKTO's production-inspection line, at only 10 behind!

Looks several people are joining in our discussion on "routing from Roon and/or JRiver into EKIO and/or Dephonica", I hope and believe we would find stable and suitable routing method very soon. If possible, I would like to eliminate ASIO4ALL and VB-Virtual Cables in the routing, as they may possibly have some uncertainty in buffer size matching and clock synchronization. Fortunately, however, I currently have no de-synchronization nor drift noise problem in my test environment, and EKIO is working fine for more than 12 hours with Roon and JRiver once the routing is suitably established.

Yes, I do my best efforts in biomedical research on the new coronavirus and COVID19 (disease name), and I hope the COVID19 status in your country should be well controlled.

 

[Torbachkristensen]

I have tried contacting them about VAT purchase and feature questions, but they do not respond, and there is no other contact info than an email. Anyone know how to get in touch?

 

[g29]

I have tried contacting them about VAT purchase and feature questions, but they do not respond, and there is no other contact info than an email. Anyone know how to get in touch?

Communications is slow. [email protected] appears to be the only email address and @Okto Research intermittently posts to this thread.

 

[Alec_eiffel]

yes gvl, at the moment the clocking scheme for Stereo is same as Dac8pro so behave as explained earlier. for USB data flow, the DPLL is "passthrough" due to same clocks domain between ESS dac and xmos (i2s/dsd).

Hello @maxidcx ,
Do you know how DAC8PRO processes native DSD streams (not DoP) ? Is there some PCM or other format conversion at some stage in the XMOS or ESS chips ? I am asking the question as I recently found out that my Exasound E28 is processing DSD as DSD which can allow for significant improvements in SQ when using advanced DSD modulators and upsampling filters upstream (HQPlayer). I was blown away yesterday by ADSM7EC modulator compared to more standard ones. I don't have the DAC8PRO for test anymore but I am curious if it can benefit from such advanced DSD processing as much as the Exasound can.

 

[mk1classic]

I have tried contacting them about VAT purchase and feature questions, but they do not respond, and there is no other contact info than an email. Anyone know how to get in touch?

I got this reply back in may 2019 from them regarding VAT.

"We are not registered as a VAT payer, thus we are unable to sell without the local tax. "

Their sales numbers / company profile (audio development and sale of equipment) must trigger the requirement to register as a VAT payer in the Czech Republic and EU?!?
This is also one of the reasons I have not yet ordered from them, being a non-EU member.

 

[ChrisPa]

I got this reply back in may 2019 from them regarding VAT.

"We are not registered as a VAT payer, thus we are unable to sell without the local tax. "

Their sales numbers / company profile (audio development and sale of equipment) must trigger the requirement to register as a VAT payer in the Czech Republic and EU?!?

Not necessarily.

EU vat registration is dependent on company turnover - below a turnover threshold, which is set by each country, you don't need to register for vat. Company profile is of no relevance. For example, in the UK it's £85000. I don't know what it is in CZ. Small businesses have enough to do when starting up without having to handle vat returns.

Sales numbers/turnover are also dependent on the dates of the company's accounting year. If you form a company, sell nothing in the first 11 months and then sell £70k in month 11 you still haven't hit the vast threshold (but it would indicate that you are likely to the next year )

It's not a problem. It's simply an indication that they were a start up with limited turnover last May. OTOH that may no longer be the case in March 2020

 

[Tks]

Hello @maxidcx ,
Do you know how DAC8PRO processes native DSD streams (not DoP) ? Is there some PCM or other format conversion at some stage in the XMOS or ESS chips ? I am asking the question as I recently found out that my Exasound E28 is processing DSD as DSD which can allow for significant improvements in SQ when using advanced DSD modulators and upsampling filters upstream (HQPlayer). I was blown away yesterday by ADSM7EC modulator compared to more standard ones. I don't have the DAC8PRO for test anymore but I am curious if it can benefit from such advanced DSD processing as much as the Exasound can.

Improvements in SQ how through these upsampling filters exactly? Interested in also hearing how upsampling DSD to DSD without a PCM phase is even possible. Though even if you told me, it'd probably go over my head either way.

But I am more interested in this idea of where you think SQ improvements are arriving from and what they are.

 

[bigLP]

I got an email from Pavel yesterday saying the Dac8 stereo will become available "in the next several days" and asked me if I wanted to be put on a mailing list. Maybe things are close!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Improvements in SQ how through these upsampling filters exactly? Interested in also hearing how upsampling DSD to DSD without a PCM phase is even possible. Though even if you told me, it'd probably go over my head either way.

But I am more interested in this idea of where you think SQ improvements are arriving from and what they are.

https://blog.nativedsd.com/the-higher-rates-program/

 

[Dacapalooza]

An app to record multi-channel - a PC option:

Disclaimer: I formally worked for Microsoft

If using PC probably best & easiest option. Also makes drivers irrelevant.
If feeling a little daring & willing to write a few lines of code. Simply use the NAudio library. Any PC recording app uses the same OS calls. But you can create simple dedicated app.
Download Visual Studio 2019 Community - Free. NAudio has simple examples.

My POC (Proof of Concept) I used the u-dio8.
I discovered it works w/o drivers by mistake. I just got new PC. Minidsp lacked the expected downloads in my downloads (Arrg!). Connected the u-dio8. The app (NAudio commands) still worked. Yay!

Windows did install the USB device when I connected, I assume a generic driver? OS recognized that it was 8 channels in Control Panel. So probably will work for the dac8. When I get it I will let you know.

Maybe someone can use my research. Since there is no NEW 5.1 high rez music I wanted to record music from BD ending credits that has pretty new music and entire songs. Ultimately, I decided against. The purist in me, I don't want a PC even connected to my system. There is no iPhone in my threesome of monoblocks.

 

[Tks]

https://blog.nativedsd.com/the-higher-rates-program/

TL;DR For how DSD to directly DSD sampling works:

"When albums are recorded in DSD and include DXD post production – or are recorded and post-produced in DXD, NativeDSD acquires the label’s original DXD edited master. With these albums, NativeDSD then uses Merging Technologies’ Pyramix 12 workstation software and the new “MICO” modulators to create first generation DSD 64, DSD 128, and DSD 256 Stereo and Multichannel files, as well as a DXD deliverable in 24-bit FLAC format. Additionally, on selected recordings, a 32bit PCM WAV file is extracted from the DXD edited master (the DXD PCM FLAC is 24 bits by format definition), and this 32bit file is used it to modulate and create a DSD 512 edition using HQ Player 4 Pro and the Signalyst professional software tools for release. "

Whatever that means.. Still don't see how this is direct DSD manipulation outside of the PCM realm.

TL;DR For the sound differences:

"The result is music with far improved phase response, a sound that is less aggressive, more spacious and airy, and less “digital”"

I have the ability to play native DSD256. I've tried blind testing that vs DSD64. Failed 4 times out of a 20-test run per. (Blue Coast Records tracks recorded in DSD natively as I feel getting the original provided sample rate something was recorded and mastered in, is worthwhile I suppose for archival purposes, and quelling of OCD tendencies at least)

This is nonsense from my experience pragmatically speaking though, but the bigger nonsense if how they don't provide technical auditory aspects that change (aside from noise at much higher inaudible frequencies that you won't be hearing anyway).

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Whatever that means.. Still don't see how this is direct DSD manipulation outside of the PCM realm.

Because, I suspect, most DSD recordings are recorded as DXD. The other option involving 32bit PCM WAV files is another story.

(Blue Coast Records tracks recorded in DSD natively as I feel getting the original provided sample rate something was recorded and mastered in, is worthwhile I suppose for archival purposes, and quelling of OCD tendencies at least)

1. But doesn't Cookie master her recordings as analog?
2. Nonetheless, I agree with your conclusion.

 

[dualazmak]

I do not know if this info would be worthwhile or not, but Pavel of OKTO recently responded regarding DAC8PRO as follows;

"the DAC chip inside our products (DAC8PRO) is the ES9028PRO (single chip). It is the same digital-wise as the ES9038PRO, the only difference is in output resistance (and current). Our analog output stage is highly optimized for the ES9028PRO so there would be no benefit in placing the ES9038PRO instead. The limitation for 192kHz PCM and 2xDSD is due to transfer speed limitation in XMOS processor (for 8 channels), not in the DAC chip."

For my current project of "to use DAC8PRO in building stereo 4-way 8-channel multi-amplifiers audio system with software crossover handling 24bit 192KHz (EKIO)", above specifications of DAC8PRO seem to be nearly perfect. I, therefore, ordered one, and I am very much looking forward to using DAC8PRO hopefully very soon.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello Kees and others,

Now I could establish stable input routing from Roon (and JRiver) into EKIO.

As EKIO handles and processes every thing in 24bit 192kHz, it is critical that we should set every I/O in 24bit 192kHz.

We should make sure that "Hi-Fi Cable Input (VB-Audio Hi-Fi Cable)" should be set in "24bit 192kHz" at the Windows - Control Panel - Sound - Hi-Fi Cable Input - Properties - Details.

Then in Roon and JRiver you may select "VB Hi-Fi Cable" as output device, and in DSP sampling conversion should be set "all in 192 kHz". In Roon's Device Setting for "VB-Audio Hi-F- Cable" - "SHOW ADVANCED" we may better to set the "MAX Sample Rate (PCM)" to be "Up to 192kHz", and "MAX Bits Per Sample (PCM)" to be "24".

OF Course, in EKIO's "Settings", we should select "192000" and "ASIO4ALL". When you would change some of the routing in ASIO4ALL's EKIO pannel, you need to set EKIO's Driver into "None", and then choose "ASIO4ALL" again so that EKIO can exactly recognize your routing change.

Now I have very stable I/O and superior SQ of EKIO, even all the processing is in 24bit 192kHz.
I would like to hear your possible SQ comparison between dePhonica and EKIO.

 

[Dacapalooza]

MiniDSP do an alternative to the Trinnov for DSP, the all digital DDRC-88D

$1K vs $10K.
Are these the only 2 devices that do 8 channels EQ?
Too bad there are no EQness graphs.

Am I the only one that went with the $10K option? Is there anyone out there?
I searched the internet for Dirac vs Trinnov. I have written search engines and still don't have a scientific answer.

I got it because the difference of EQ techs will sound far different than the worse DAC vs the best DAC.

No other part of audio chain will sound as different than the EQ. Also support. Trinnov updates regularly so you get new EQ all the time. Reminds me of Tivo. I come home one day and GUI is different. Although there are times I don’t look at the GUI for months.

Also, no need to learn or use room measurement apps. There are many interactive graphs in the GUI taken from their 3d microphone. Not that I know how to read them. The first graph looks like the xtz room analyzer's than I am lost. One of those other graphs must represent the reverb? Maybe the "group delay" graph? "Impulse?" Does any one know which Trinnov graph is equivalent to xtz's room reverberation waterfall graph?

 

[Kees Huizinga]

Hi Dualazmak, Tanks for the description of the routing in your set-up. I have downloaded the demo-version of EKIO, but I couldn't made the right connections. In other words: there was no sound. I'll make another attempt this weekend. There is an alternative ASIO-driver for the DAC8Pro from DIYINHK. I own the multi-channel board and the driver is stable.

The Okto DAC8Pro will work with this driver.