What flavor PI?

[Tom C]

Hello,
We're doing some remodeling to our 45 year-old house, and after moving the furniture where my wife wants it, my main PC is no longer next to my main 2-channel system.
It has a preamp with built in DAC that can accept optical digital, coax digital, or USB. I have an ASIO driver from the manufacturer for use with Windows. It is said that for Mac OS, native drivers are sufficient, no extra driver is needed. Manufacturer doesn't specify regarding Linux variants.
I had been using a desktop PC, with Win 10 and JRiver MC26, with outstanding results. Very pleasing to the ears. But a direct, hardwire connection from PC to preamp is no longer possible. I don't (yet) have a network server, and accessing files stored on a PC on my home network (set up as a Windows work network, but located in my home) has given me fits, dropping the connection, blocking access to shared files, etc. Pretty lame, always having to go to another room to reset network discovery every time I want to use it. Plus the greater lag/latency loading the files. I realize that if I learned Windows networks better I might be able to avoid some or all of the issues, but time is important to me too. Plus, whatever you learn today is only good until the next update that rearranges everything, wasting more of my limited time on a frustrating exercise.
For replacing the PC, I am considering one of the Pi flavors, raspberry, pecan or orange, but have no experience with any of them. I think I have read somewhere around here that Raspberry Pi can be used with a web based interface, so a phone or other mobile device can be used for browsing and file selection. I think that would be quite nice. Room correction is less important to me at the moment, simply because I'm not sophisticated enough to be using it yet, but would be good to add down the road (one thing at a time). I have a portable USB hard drive (with all my music files) I'd like to connect to the Pi, and plan to use USB to connect the Pi to the DAC that is built into the preamp.
So, I'd need at least two USB ports, the ability to run a software player of some type, and WiFi. That's it. It seems about any of the Pi's would handle that readily. But would they all work equally well? Is price the only difference between them? How much processing power, and how much RAM is needed?
Thank you in advance for any help you're able to provide.

 

[tw99]

Raspberry PI 4 plus PiCorePlayer. Even the 1gb version will be fine. Everything you need for about $70.

 

[somebodyelse]

There's a good chance that your preamp/DAC will work with linux given it seems standards compliant, but it doesn't always work that way.

The Pi 4 and PiCorePlayer would be my choice too, along with Squeezer or similar as a remote control app. You'd be using the option to install LogitechMediaServer (LMS) on PiCorePlayer to keep it all self contained. It doesn't suit everyone though, and what some see as an advantage will be a disadvantage to others, so don't expect any consensus here - you'll have to decide based on your own priorities.

The Raspberry Pi isn't the cheapest board, but probably has the widest range of player options and the most consistent long term support of the available boards. The Pi 4 has a new USB subsystem that solves the problems that people sometimes ran into with USB audio on the earlier Raspberry Pi models. Given the similarity of the prices I see no reason to pick an earlier model if you don't have one already. 1GB is certainly enough for PiCorePlayer, and probably for most of the other options while they retain compatibility with the older boards. The FLIRC case is neat and does a good heatsinking job.

LMS has a lot of plugins available, and a search on their forum will turn up lots of ways to customise its indexing to cover composer, conductor, soloist, and other options that some find important. Others say this makes it too complicated.

Others to consider are Volumio, Moode and Rune, and I'm sure there are others I've missed. I'd suggest giving them all a try, or at least a look over their features, to see which suits you best.

 

[GeorgeWalk]

I have used every Raspberry Pi since the beginning. I have two players the I use at home: 1) Raspberry Pi4 with 1G memory running Volumio. It interfaces to a Topping D50s via USB. I like the Pi4 because it has USB 3.0 ports and they don't share with the network port. Runs great never had a problem. 2) Raspberry Pi Zero Wifi. This has a Allo DigiOne on it. Also running Volumio. It connects via optical to my Parasound PreAmp.

Both sound great. Inexpensive (the Pi Zero is $10) runs great.

 

[Tom C]

Thank you all. Exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Daverz]

Pi4 if you want to do a direct USB connection to your DAC. 3B+ is probably preferred for using a hat (less heat).

Since it sounds like you want to use the Pi as both music server and streamer, I'd get the 4GB version. I'd also be a bit worried about the heat that would be generated when putting a load on it, so at least put it in a "Flirc" case (google "pi4 flirc case"). Or just split server and streamer onto 2 separate Pis, one with a fan and tucked away from the listening room. The streamer doesn't need a fan, fancy case, or much memory. They are so cheap that experimenting is easy.

I use piCorePlayer as the "streaming OS", with Logitech Media Server (LMS) on a server in my loft. But there are lots of other choices available.

 

[renaudrenaud]

I play with Pi since the beginning. I've also played with Orange Pi, Banana Pi and other flavors. Right now I am playing with the Atomic Pi. It costs 35$ and there is an Intel 4 core on the card. But I understand you prefer to use a Raspberry Pi. The community is huge and it is the real power of this card.

 

[shumi]

Guys, real newbie here. Never streamed before but planning to start as soon as I figure this stuff out. My entire sound system is located in the basement. I have a good dedicated DAC which I plan to use. Unfortunately I can not stream live in the basement as my WIFI signal is not strong enough there. I rather not place another line for the basement also. So, my only choice is to listen offline. How would I do that and what kind of equipment would I need? I guess I would download music from the server upstairs, save it to what? and then take it downstairs when I want to listen to it. I would connect to my Dac which can accept USB or SPDF. I also need to say that I would want an uncompromised system in terms of audio quality and that I plan to stream high resolution music. Thanks.

 

[Tom C]

If your phone won't work in the basement, and you don't want the hassle of running a LAN hardwire into the basement, you might find a portable hard drive to work well to download to, and carry to the basement. A Raspberry Pi 4 has USB x 4 connectors, so it can connect with a hard drive and a DAC that way. It can also do wireless LAN and Bluetooth, by the way (that's where real-time streaming might come in) A flash drive might work, but there are limits to the size of the files that will work efficiently and reliably, so that would depend on how much you want to load onto it at a time (Raspberry Pi can only read FAT32, can't read exFAT or NTFS). You could download to an SD card, but again you're limited to FAT32.
Other options would include new or used Apple Mac mini, laptop, Intel NUCS, and similar, but those would all cost more than Raspberry Pi. Depends on what all you want to do, what operating systems you're currently familiar with, and how much (or not) you want to get into learning a new OS.
Do you know what player software you'd like to use? Do you prefer Apple or Android?

 

[somebodyelse]

Flash drives have the same limitations as HDDs regarding file size. The Pi can certainly read NTFS - you just need to install the ntfs-3g package if it isn't there by default. exFAT support should be in the next mainstream kernel release, so you'll have to wait a bit for that. If you're a Mac user the Pi can also read HFS+ if you install the hfsplus package. The package names are for Raspbian - if you're using a different linux variety they'll probably be similar.

 

[shumi]

Thanks guys...I have an Android phone and a Dell laptop. I could also buy a cheap tablet if necessary. I like the idea of the Pi 4 as an economical way of getting it done but I have been reading about noise, jitter, etc... My system is very revealing, Magnepan 3.6 biamped, Dual GR triple 12 inch open baffle subs, Bryston amps, tube preamp, Denafrips R2R Dac, etc.. I am planning to use Tidal. Stupid question...can I just download to my android cell for offline streaming? How do I then get the downloaded files to play on my DAC? Bluetooth to a Pi4 which is then connected to my DAC? Man, i wish I could pay a consultant to get this done for me. I am 62 and I am overwhelmed with all the hardware choices but even more scared about the software choices. I have no idea what FAT32, NTFS, exFAT, kernel, HFS+, linux are but willing to google and research. My apologies if i am wasting your time. Thanks again.

 

[Tom C]

Flash drives have the same limitations as HDDs regarding file size. The Pi can certainly read NTFS - you just need to install the ntfs-3g package if it isn't there by default. exFAT support should be in the next mainstream kernel release, so you'll have to wait a bit for that. If you're a Mac user the Pi can also read HFS+ if you install the hfsplus package. The package names are for Raspbian - if you're using a different linux variety they'll probably be similar.

Yes, you are right. I use a 1T USB 3.0 external hard drive formatted to NTFS, and it works perfectly. I had the internal SD card in mind when I said that, and didn’t quite think it through, so I misspoke.
The internal SD card used to boot Raspbian OS must be formatted to FAT32 though, at least according to the online documentation at the Raspberry Pi official site.
For the OP’s situation, I expect file transfer rate to be important, to minimize wait time when downloading a file to portable media. USB 3.0 flash drive or external SSD should be the fastest, and both quite usable, individual’s choice. USB 3.0 HDD is what I use, because I had a spare handy. But, I only need portable when I want to add files to it.

 

[Tom C]

Thanks guys...I have an Android phone and a Dell laptop. I could also buy a cheap tablet if necessary. I like the idea of the Pi 4 as an economical way of getting it done but I have been reading about noise, jitter, etc... My system is very revealing, Magnepan 3.6 biamped, Dual GR triple 12 inch open baffle subs, Bryston amps, tube preamp, Denafrips R2R Dac, etc.. I am planning to use Tidal. Stupid question...can I just download to my android cell for offline streaming? How do I then get the downloaded files to play on my DAC? Bluetooth to a Pi4 which is then connected to my DAC? Man, i wish I could pay a consultant to get this done for me. I am 62 and I am overwhelmed with all the hardware choices but even more scared about the software choices. I have no idea what FAT32, NTFS, exFAT, kernel, HFS+, linux are but willing to google and research. My apologies if i am wasting your time. Thanks again.

I’m your age and really just learning a lot of this myself, but am happy to try and help. Your laptop might be the easiest way to go. You’ll need some kind of player software. You can be upstairs (or wherever it is in your house you can connect to internet) and download the program you want to listen to. Downstairs, you can use a USB cable to connect to your DAC, and away you go. If your DAC can recognize your phone as a mass storage device, you could go that route, but you would have none of the functionality of the phone.
If you want wireless control from your easy chair, it’s possible, but just a little more involved.

 

[somebodyelse]

The internal SD card used to boot Raspbian OS must be formatted to FAT32 though, at least according to the online documentation at the Raspberry Pi official site.

Sort of - it needs a small FAT32 partition for the boot config, kernel etc. which eventually appears as /boot. The rest of the card is usually a large ext4 partition for the root filesystem.

For the OP’s situation, I expect file transfer rate to be important, to minimize wait time when downloading a file to portable media. USB 3.0 flash drive or external SSD should be the fastest, and both quite usable, individual’s choice. USB 3.0 HDD is what I use, because I had a spare handy. But, I only need portable when I want to add files to it.

Agreed.

 

[somebodyelse]

Thanks guys...I have an Android phone and a Dell laptop. I could also buy a cheap tablet if necessary. I like the idea of the Pi 4 as an economical way of getting it done but I have been reading about noise, jitter, etc... My system is very revealing, Magnepan 3.6 biamped, Dual GR triple 12 inch open baffle subs, Bryston amps, tube preamp, Denafrips R2R Dac, etc.. I am planning to use Tidal. Stupid question...can I just download to my android cell for offline streaming? How do I then get the downloaded files to play on my DAC? Bluetooth to a Pi4 which is then connected to my DAC? Man, i wish I could pay a consultant to get this done for me. I am 62 and I am overwhelmed with all the hardware choices but even more scared about the software choices. I have no idea what FAT32, NTFS, exFAT, kernel, HFS+, linux are but willing to google and research. My apologies if i am wasting your time. Thanks again.

The Ares II review shows a well engineered USB input - the tests are done using an ordinary PC USB socket. You should be fine feeding it from your Dell, a Pi 4, or even your Android phone using a USB-OTG adapter.

There are bluetooth to spdif adapters available. Audio transfer over bluetooth uses lossy codecs which you may not want, and some manufacturers also apply different equalization to different codecs. Using a Pi as a bluetooth receiver is certainly possible, but may not be easy. I _think_ Moode can do it, but someone else has pointed out that its documentation isn't very good, and I've never tried it myself.

Tidal has an offline mode that you should be able to use. I don't use Tidal so I'll leave it to others to comment on the details. As I understand it UAPP can play from Tidal - whether it works with offline mode I don't know, but if it does you can connect your phone to the DAC. @Tom C's suggestion about using your phone or laptop seems a good one to me given your Tidal requirement. Somehow I doubt Tidal will just let you copy the files, so the USB drive option we were suggesting is probably a non-starter.

Knowing which bits you don't understand is good - we can either suggest ways that avoid the problem bits, or point you to wards the bits you'd need to research.

 

[Tom C]

Shumi, for your DAC, what have you connected to it before? And with what type of connection?
And if I’m reading you correctly, you’d like to start streaming, but you haven’t in the past. And you’d like to do it where it’s hard to have a live internet connection, right?

 

[Casey Leedom]

Hhmmm, so no one here is using Roon with RoPieee?

Casey

 

[Tom C]

Can’t speak for anyone else, of course, but I’m not a streamer. Never felt the need. If there’s something I really like, I prefer to own it, instead of rent it.

 

[shumi]

Thanks again guys. Yes TomC, I have never streamed before and need to do it offline. So, here is what i envision... While upstairs with a good wifi connection to my laptop, I would use Tidal to select and download for offline playing about 20 hi-res Flac tracks (how much storage will that require/?). In the evening, after making a good adult beverage, I would go downstairs to the basement and somehow select the queue of the 20 tracks and play them feeding them to my DAC. That is the process. My Dac is brand new, I just received it after waiting 3 months for it, never even turned it on as of yet. I am awaiting for my speaker to get back from Magnepan for a complete rebuilt job. I have a spare flat panel tv with HDMI which I would love to connect in order to see what is being played while I listen. I understand Pi has HDMI output. I do not know anything about Roon and RoPiee Casey, will that be an easier execution of what I want to do? The Denafrieps uses a Proprietary USB Audio Solution via STM32F446 Advanced AMR Based MCU. The unit came with a USB driver.

 

[somebodyelse]

It looks like Tidal only support offline mode in mobile apps, apparently over copyright concerns. Can any Tidal users confirm? If this is correct you'll either have to use your phone as the player, or extend your network to the basement so that the usual streaming options will work.