• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Chord ‘M-Scaler’ reviewed in Stereophile

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London

Fluffy

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 14, 2019
Messages
856
Likes
1,423
I don't know if it's fitting to call it $4795 worth of snake oil, because it apparently does something. I am pretty sure that that thing is not worth $4795 or even audible.

By the way, I tried this thing out at the last Canjam. All I can say is that it has pretty lights.
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
3,314
Likes
4,427
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
I had a dem of one when my local dealer staged a Chord Open Evening some months back. There was definitely a *clearly* audible difference, but the rep had the remote control and the nature of the difference was in volume changes... Whether the perceived dynamic range really was improved (quiet bits quieter and louder bits louder - dynamic expansion in other words) I have no idea.

Track used was the locally streamed album version of this (I assume from a CD source ripped to storage but not sure) -

I doubt I'll ever get the chance, but I'd love to try one under personally controlled conditions with absolutely no chance of any volume change between A and B. Please don't think I'm accusing the rep of anything, but the difference seemed more than a slight change to me so without trying it for myself, I have to be doubtful... And until that evening, I was NOT a Chord Electronics fan at all (it's actually rather good if you don't mind paying for it ;))...
 
D

Deleted member 9286

Guest
I own an M scaler but have never performed any DBT of myself personally. I think it sounds better than without (not by a lot I must add) but that is meaningless anyway as of course my brain will think that as I know it’s in the system.

I did perform some blind testing on my girlfriend though when I first got it. She had no idea what I was testing, I just played a short clip repeatedly and adjusted between pass through and 1 million taps and asked her to note which she thought sounded further away (a large claim regarding the M Scaler is increased depth).

She got it right 16 out of 20 times. I obviously threw a good few fake switches in there too, to randomise as much as possible.

I appreciate that some members here will be doubtful of this or my method no doubt, and I make no claims that this constitutes evidence or proof of anything, I just thought it was an interesting outcome.
 

AudioJester

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
912
Likes
1,213
Is this thing like HQPlayer, as in it changes modulator/filters?

I listened to a dsd dac once which only had a low pass filter, and hqp filters seemed to be noticably different. Was not a science experiment, just a bit of fun.

Can people here the differences between filters on say a topping dac?
 

ElNino

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
557
Likes
722
As a digital filter nerd, I'd never buy this. The trade-off to using such a steep brickwall filter is considerably more pre-ringing than your average DAC (you can see this from the measurements -- though the way Stereophile presented it is probably confusing/hard to understand for most people).

There's no definitive science on whether pre-ringing is audible, but there's no reason to have more of it than necessary. The engineering trade-offs here don't make sense.
 

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,216
Likes
24,179
I had a dem of one when my local dealer staged a Chord Open Evening some months back. There was definitely a *clearly* audible difference, but the rep had the remote control and the nature of the difference was in volume changes... Whether the perceived dynamic range really was improved (quiet bits quieter and louder bits louder - dynamic expansion in other words) I have no idea.

Track used was the locally streamed album version of this (I assume from a CD source ripped to storage but not sure) -

I doubt I'll ever get the chance, but I'd love to try one under personally controlled conditions with absolutely no chance of any volume change between A and B. Please don't think I'm accusing the rep of anything, but the difference seemed more than a slight change to me so without trying it for myself, I have to be doubtful... And until that evening, I was NOT a Chord Electronics fan at all (it's actually rather good if you don't mind paying for it ;))...
Hmmm... I wonder how Lucius feels about Uncle Lucius? Which one came first? :rolleyes:

https://www.ilovelucius.com/

 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,201
Likes
16,983
Location
Riverview FL
I think I find the most useful add-on device to be in-line digital control of perceived frequency response.

There. I said it. EQ.

Needn't spend $4795 for it, although I suppose you could.

It's "set and forget" for me, not anything done per album or track, although I do have some recordings that seem to be mis-mastered.

There's only one commercial recording that I plan to remaster (such as I can) myself.
 
Last edited:

tuga

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
3,984
Likes
4,281
Location
Oxford, England
Is this thing like HQPlayer, as in it changes modulator/filters?

I listened to a dsd dac once which only had a low pass filter, and hqp filters seemed to be noticably different. Was not a science experiment, just a bit of fun.

Can people here the differences between filters on say a topping dac?

I use my DAC in NOS mode and HQPlayer to upconvert Redbook to DSD128 which is the highest admissible rate my DAC will take.
I find that this sounds slightly better than the internal SRC. I also find that different filters sound slightly different

Archimago has performed an analysis of HQPlayer and Jussi Laako (HQPlayer) has performed comparative measurements of a few DACs (upsampling and upconverting) including my own.
 

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,078
Likes
8,914
I have some very special USB cables that I can provide you for $1,000 each... LOL
 

maxxevv

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
1,872
Likes
1,964
I did a demo of the Dave with and without the Blu Mk2, (essentially the M-scaler) connected to a Focal Utopia via a 3rd party amp.

There were discernible differences in the "perceived texture" to my ears. Somewhat like a DSP effect you get off PC soundcards but in a much more refined manner.

HOWEVER, just as @DSJR experienced, I wasn't completely certain if there was a difference in volume or gain settings between having the m-scaler in the loop. The headphone amplifier's volume knob was in my hands but its hard to say if the the volumes were matched properly to say for sure due to the different inputs to the amp.
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,750
Likes
20,760
Location
Canada
I did a demo of the Dave with and without the Blu Mk2, (essentially the M-scaler) connected to a Focal Utopia via a 3rd party amp.

There were discernible differences in the "perceived texture" to my ears. Somewhat like a DSP effect you get off PC soundcards but in a much more refined manner.

HOWEVER, just as @DSJR experienced, I wasn't completely certain if there was a difference in volume or gain settings between having the m-scaler in the loop. The headphone amplifier's volume knob was in my hands but its hard to say if the the volumes were matched properly to say for sure due to the different inputs to the amp.
Those are the days one needs a portable oscilloscope and a reference sine wave to level match ;)
 

DSJR

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
3,314
Likes
4,427
Location
Suffolk Coastal, UK
I'm so suspicious of these types of perceived tonal/timbral/textural differences as when I hear this kin dof musicality from vinyl, I regard it as subtle compression (I can't include noise modulation here as this latter it something Rob Watts has sought to eliminate from domestic digital playback) and sadly, I don't have access to revered professional dacs as a reference. I'm reminded of the 'Dac-in-a-Box' which 'sounded amazing' but which actually and apparently severely coloured the 'sounds' possing through it (everything sounded equally amazing he reported) as 'revealed' when a pro recording engineer played his own recordings through it and directly compared with the A-D-A unit used for the session... The secret seemed to be that 'everything' sounded much the same... Sorry for the subjectivity - I'm trying to make sense of it here ;)
 

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,383
Likes
24,749
Location
Alfred, NY
Those are the days one needs a portable oscilloscope and a reference sine wave to level match ;)

I usually have something with me to measure SPL. Lots of uncertainty and I wouldn't trust it for (say) 0.3dB differences, but the sort of rigged differences in level used at demos like these are still easy to spot.
 

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,760
Likes
9,442
Location
Europe
I usually have something with me to measure SPL. Lots of uncertainty and I wouldn't trust it for (say) 0.3dB differences, but the sort of rigged differences in level used at demos like these are still easy to spot.
Would you mind telling what you have with you?
 
Top Bottom