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Emotiva RMC-1 AV Processor Review

Gedeon

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The Emotiva XPA-DR1 650 watt mono power amp, which can be used on stereo channels, has the following spec on the website (RCA):

Input Sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 2.4 V

That is 4.8V balanced.

Could you please check multichannel amps input specs from Parasound, Emotiva, Marantz, Yamaha, etc...

Just choose the 2 better ones from each manufacturer and you'll realize that most (if not all) are rated to work with voltages below 2v(unbalanced) and 4v(balanced) inputs.
 

timg

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Between the two (I've owned the RMC-1, past tense) I would go with the HTP-1 currently (mainly due to lack of XLR/Dirac/Atmos options honestly). I'm still holding out to see how the JBL SDP-55 tests, but if the Arcam AV40 (which the SDP-55 is based on) is anything to go by then I'm not very optimistic about it.

Has the AV40 been tested anywhere? I've searched, but not found it. I've seen this statement a few times now and am wondering where it comes from.

Tim
 

Koeitje

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I hope some Chinese manufacturer actually gets all the licensing down and makes one. Seems like nobody else is even measuring what they are putting on the market. What a joke.
 

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Matias

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I hope some Chinese manufacturer actually gets all the licensing down and makes one. Seems like nobody else is even measuring what they are putting on the market. What a joke.
I bet Topping or Matrix Audio would make a nice AVR/processor if they wanted to.
 

anmpr1

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Umm, sounds like Microsoft when Amirm and his old buddy Bill were knocking out crap operating system software time after time.
I don't understand why a receiver would take so long to boot up? Some kind of BIOS POST discovery? Cycling through sluggish inputs... on a five thousand dollar piece of hardware? Menu trees are used because they are cheaper to manufacture than something sporting hard wired buttons/switches. This thing appears to be an example of 'double cheapness'--poor input usability and slow response.

PS: MS-DOS v. 5 was pretty good. Better memory management than 4. NT and 2000 were OK for business. XP pretty much got it right in consumer space. Win 7x was polished. The new thing--10 seems OK, except every now and then I get MS-oriented commercials in a little window at the bottom of the screen--telling me how my life could be better if I buy or upgrade something. An OS shouldn't be a vehicle for commercials. Once the Registry came along I couldn't figure anything out. I think that was their plan.
 

Francis Vaughan

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Sadly I don't think anyone is all that surprised by the results.

As to software, something that is becoming clearer is the way a lot of the system is built by welding together disparate bits of signal processing chain sourced from different vendors. This is something that the big name brands and the niche players all seem to suffer from, and how well they manage the problem mostly comes down to the resources they can throw at the problem. Monoprice probably have significantly deeper pockets than Emotiva, and they outsourced the development of their HTP.

The barriers to entry into this market just seem to get higher all the time. Market expectations are for an ever increasing set of DSP features, all requiring licensing from their respective vendors, and then integrating into a product. This works in favour of the big name brands, who are driving the market in the disposable, compulsory upgrade path they once only dreamed of.

The right answer for the HT enthusiast would be to create an ecosystem where it was possible to built a system with Lego block components. Not be forced to buy a massive all in one processor. It is at least possible to contemplate removing any video switching from an audio processor. (I currently feed an aging, but very competent 7.1 receiver from an HDFury Diva. The reciever sees no video signal at all.) What one really wants then is a 16 channel HDCP enabled DAC unit, with a single HDMI input. Then one should be able to purchase an HDMI audio decoder, HDMI in, HDMI out. Encoded (Dolby, DTS, etc) in, PCM, HDCP protected out. Connect the two and you are good to go. Want Dirac? Buy a Dirac box. Audessy? Same deal. And so on. Only want 7.1? Buy an 8 channel HDMI DAC. Upgrade with a second one when you want to go Atmos. Of course the big brand reciver vendors are actively working to stop this. And they wield significant power. MiniDSP have a Dirac box, and a DAC that fits the idea, but there is no decoder box that can be bought. One suspects that Dolby and DTS are sufficiently beholden to their major customers to not want to consider licensing to a vendor of a stand-alone decoder.

But the niche players could, maybe, work together to open things up. That would be worth pursuing. No more massive expensive one box processors, but a stack of mix and match units. Scope for specialisation. And much happier customers. (I'll write you a UI.)
 

Gedeon

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I bet Topping or Matrix Audio would make a nice AVR/processor if they wanted to.
And if those would eventually perform well at 2v/4v ... but we attach them to power amps rated to work at 1.2v/2.4v... how useful would be those results for your setup?
 

anmpr1

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I thought they are developing firmware in-house? The problem is likely upper management. Not too long ago I had a discussion with their CTO about bass management which clearly showed that he did not understand the basic concept. It resulted in me getting banned from their forum by Cathy Laufman. All posts have been deleted. Pure arrogance.

That's always a good place to start looking. The first place to really look. A couple of weeks ago I read an interview from Boeing's new chief. So typical. When asked about the share slide he said something to the effect that 'maximizing investor value' was job one, as if safety was some kind of afterthought that would take care of itself.

At least this Emotiva won't kill you if its on-board software chokes. And it probably doesn't have metal crap in its gas tanks (does it even have a gas tank?) So it's got those things going for it.

Maybe for home theater the goal is simply to blow something up in your living room. The only thing that matters is loud sound. Who cares if the Death Star is distorted? Maybe that's how they think.
 

maty

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http://werner-musica.com/blog/tag/emotiva-rmc-1/

Clarified and optimized

Emotiva-RMC-1-Procesador-AV-16-Canales-Dolby-Atmos-DTS-Dirac-inside.jpg
 

gfx_1

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Of course, I'm a fan of massive arrays of tactile buttons on gear... so I'm definitely not the majority.
I do like buttons, but most AV receivers (I'm looking at you Marantz) use very tiny labels so it's a bit of a guessing game and the minimal display in the circle doesn't show things I would like to know. User interface isn't the priority it should be. Yamaha was a bit better in that way.
 

GeorgeWalk

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To quote Emotiva themselves (on the Emotiva forums), they claim they're not a "software company" so it's hard for them to release stable code for their processors. They probably should have just stuck to manufacturing their speakers and amps (although even the XLRs on their amps are wired backwards, which I'm just now finding out).

That's a lame excuse. I have seen companies in other industries claim the same thing. Would it be acceptable if they claimed they were an audio company and not hardware company? It is a matter of having the will to do software well. Most companies see software as something any "coder" can do. That is why you don't have stable, reliable software. It requires a larger investment of time and money to do it well. You can get software done "good enough" so customers don't complain too much by a team of coders. But, to really do it right you need to hire software engineers that know how to architect and craft good algorithms and the infrastructure to do it right. Many "hardware" oriented companies don't want to commit money and energy to build a really good software team.
 

DonH56

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Linked on the Emo Forum, generating a few comments from "Ouch!" to "I don't listen to graphs." IOW the usual range. I'd expect AVRs/AVPs in general to be well below stand-alone DAC performance but you'd think this one would at least top their last one. Hopefully there are some simple changes they can make but like Amir this smells like a HW issue to me so the changes may need to involve shielding, decoupling, wire dress, or board layout changes.
 
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DonH56

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1582637500337.png


Edit: Figured Sir @Thomas savage would like that one, plus my mom and sis raise(d) horses, and I did my time on farm, range, and rodeo.
 
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My little $300 Onkyo AVR is looking a-o-kay right about now. :oops: I’m sure there’s a good chance it’s headless panther material and I may want better, but it kind of, well, just works, it does some cool stuff. $2 DAC chip and all. :confused:

For sixteen times more you get. . .what? I’m sorry, I can’t relate to user interface being that messed up for $5,000. That strikes me as requiring really, really basic programming and debugging skills. What, a few days’ work by one person? Okay, maybe two or three people? I mean this isn’t operating on a full-blown computer operating system, is it? It’s simple stuff, right? Am I wrong?

At this price you can afford to include a Raspberry Pi compute module to handle the interface. ;) Full Linux stack takes the pain out of development. Good UI is not easy, but at least sane UI for something this limited is absolutely doable in a short time.

Also: Whenever a user says "I've never seen this UI pattern before" you should know that you are overwhelmingly likely on a wrong path. Pick something that others have done and that works, do not try to reinvent the wheel!
 

DonH56

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Yeah, that's a classic. Unfortunately the graphs did listen to the device :) Major cognitive dissonance. Next is ad hominem attacks.

I read the graphs as they can tell me what I am hearing. I thought about saying that in the thread but why bother, probably just lead to me getting banned. I did state I'd like to see Emotiva engage with Amir to see what can be done. We'll see.

Attacks began almost immediately, natch, but surprisingly so far most seem to believe in Amir's results (but it is early yet).
 

SOWK

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I went through a lot of that with 1.7 version of the firmware. I must have rebooted the thing half a dozen time. Version 1.8 seemed to make the unit more robust.

As I explained though, the measurements point to electronic design issues, not software.


I assume you were using the 1.8 Beta.

Just last night they finally released the official 1.8.
www.dropbox.com/s/41cim9og2x5sqr4/EmotivaUpdate-1_8-2020_02_24.dat?dl=0

If you still have the unit please do the following if you are willing.


Do a factory reset under Setup/Advanced
Turn off the unit
Unplug the unit and all HDMI
wait 1 min
plug the unit back in, no HDMI yet
install the official 1.8
Do a factory reset under Setup/Advanced
Turn off the unit
Unplug the unit with all HDMI still unplugged
wait 1 min
plug the unit back in, no HDMI yet
Turn the unit on
Make the changes you need in the setup menu
turn off the unit
Unplug the unit with all HDMI still unplugged
plug the unit back in, and the HDMI.
Retest with working HDMI Audio.


I know you think it is electronic design, but you might not know how truly incompetent their software team is!

I would seriously be shocked if the results don't change drastically.


And yes... I know the above process seems unreasonable, and it is. But its the only way to get the unit to work accurately. :(

Even something as simple as changing modes from Auto to Stereo and Direct can screw up the unit to start doing weird things and possibly have it start to measure differently.

So if you are going to test a particular mode, say Stereo reference you might want to do a full power cycle or reboot after each mode change.
 
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Dogen

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The UI issues and pitiful on-screen display are inexcusable. I have an inexpensive Marantz AVR that’s mostly a joy to navigate. I’d choose suboptimal sound and a great UI over great sound and terrible UI...it would frustrate me every day I use it.

But this...it’s like the Woody Allen line: the food is bad but at least the portions are small.
 
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