Klipsch R-41M Bookshelf Speaker Review

[amirm]

The research on audibility of resonances I linked to was conducted when @Floyd Toole was at the Canada National Research Council, not Harman.

Indeed. Here is a great example:

Besides, anyone wanting to benefit their own company, would not publish all the research for their competitors to use as well.

 

[amirm]

Some people like "coloured" gear. Is it that too difficult to accept?

Very much so. Most of the time measurements show such coloration to be well below audibility for audiophiles yet they perceive it and justify it on basis of "it is good distortion." Post a paper that we can read on such topics and then we have something real to chew on.

Until then, that "warm sound" is perceived because the unit has tubes, or lacks feedback as told by its designer, etc.

 

[amirm]

Many signal-correlated distortions increase the sense of "spaciousness", a bit like reverb.

I have performed countless listening tests of such distorted products. The distortion is either not audible, or if it is audible, it makes the music brighter and more annoying. Now, if you substitute such facts for stories read on the internet, and without controlled testing, then sure, all of what you say is imagined every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[tuga]

Very much so. Most of the time measurements show such coloration to be well below audibility for audiophiles yet they perceive it and justify it on basis of "it is good distortion." Post a paper that we can read on such topics and then we have something real to chew on.

Until then, that "warm sound" is perceived because the unit has tubes, or lacks feedback as told by its designer, etc.

That position is a bit narrow-minded.

This is not a paper but it's an educational piece nonetheless which describes different sources of "warmth" in music production:

Analogue Warmth - The Sound Of Tubes, Tape & Transformers
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/analogue-warmth

Audibility is too broad a stroke. Have you watched this talk?
Or heard about super recognisers and people with absolute pitch?
If someone teaches you to identify through listening a particular artifact then what was inaudible suddenly becomes obvious. Like the call of a kite or the hum of a bulb.

 

[amirm]

Audibility is too broad a stroke. Have you watched this talk?

I have. If you watch to the end, I am the one asking him question.

 

[tuga]

I have performed countless listening tests of such distorted products. The distortion is either not audible, or if it is audible, it makes the music brighter and more annoying. Now, if you substitute such facts for stories read on the internet, and without controlled testing, then sure, all of what you say is imagined every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Why twice on Sundays?
Are they using valves in churches now?
Rolled top end is not a distortion, not on Sundays.

 

[tuga]

I have. If you watch to the end, I am the one asking him question.

Good. Did you notice that some people can take a lot more distortion than others?

 

[AudioTodd]

PLEASE @amirm POST ANOTHER REVIEW! This one is making me DEPRESSED!! I NEED good news!

 

[MZKM]

PLEASE @amirm POST ANOTHER REVIEW! This one is making me DEPRESSED!! I NEED good news!

Let‘s just say very good news (not for your wallet) is incoming.

 

[tomtoo]

I've always wondered about that. If using a sub crossed at 80 hz or higher, would the port's contribution be eliminated/minimized? Or would the back pressure on the midwoofer from a wallmount interfere with its operation?

Dont know. But i think it's not a good way to close a port. I just have that picture in my head, that with one nail, and the box now claps against the wall with the bass. ; )

 

[AudioTodd]

Let‘s just say very good news (not for your wallet) is incoming.

Well that would be a surprise as this site has validated my most expensive recent audio purchases (Benchmark & Auralic) made before I discovered it and has given my wallet reason to rejoice by proving the value of some affordable gear (Schiit, believe it or not) that is out there (not to mention giving me a great place to exercise my need for reading and learning outside of the current news industry). Cheers!

 

[mhardy6647]

Quality can refer to many things: build quality, reliability, consistence of performance.

If one is bored, desperate, or nostalgic enough, one may read Robert Pirsig's rumination on "quality", Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.


That book -- and this is absolutely true -- was required reading for a Molecular Biology laboratory course I took as an undergraduate ca. 1977.
I mean, it was the Seventies, you know?

 

[amirm]

PLEASE @amirm POST ANOTHER REVIEW! This one is making me DEPRESSED!! I NEED good news!

I am working on it. Will be out in the next hour.

 

[Doodski]

Klipsch is one of the most widely distributed speaker brands in the US. I guess that is why they can get away with just throwing anything together.

It's the same in Canada. Klipsch is near fully stocked @ nearly all the major retailers and even the major drug store.

 

[AudioTodd]

If one is bored, desperate, or nostalgic enough, one may read Robert Pirsig's rumination on "quality", Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.


That book -- and this is absolutely true -- was required reading for a Molecular Biology laboratory course I took as an undergraduate ca. 1977.
I mean, it was the Seventies, you know? View attachment 51394

Yes I know! I’m a tad young, I suppose, having been born in 1967, but that book was a MUST HAVE in my youth - even though I never read it. Perhaps I should find it (or easier, get it online) and finally read it!

Sorry for the Off Topic Digression!!

 

[Prana Ferox]

Audiophiles are special because they obsess about audio unlike normal consumers.

Audiophiles are special because they're willing to throw a lot more money (or a higher % of their disposable income and time) at audio than a normal consumer. It is an extremely fashion-conscious community and innate ability (i.e. "golden ears") is largely self-imagined. It's not significantly different from most enthusiast communities in these respects.

 

[tuga]

Audiophiles are special because they're willing to throw a lot more money (or a higher % of their disposable income and time) at audio than a normal consumer. It is an extremely fashion-conscious community and innate ability (i.e. "golden ears") is largely self-imagined. It's not significantly different from most enthusiast communities in these respects.

I agree.
Years ago when I bought my first digital camera I joined the DPReview forum. Not particularly different in many aspects I'd say, though the blind brand following is much worse in my opinion. On the other hand, no cable silliness, and different SD cards produce identical images.

 

[Rockfella]

As a policy, I don't do that. I get use out of them by measuring and it would not be right to then return them for free.

Members can do that that though if measurements don't match the company advertising.

How about you inform them you need their gems for measurements only? See what they say... I am sure many will be more than willing to send their stuff to you ... maybe?

 

[Haint]

How about you inform them you need their gems for measurements only? See what they say... I am sure many will be more than willing to send their stuff to you ... maybe?

Sourcing directly from the manufacturer creates a potential for so called golden and/or modified samples. This is why serious review outlets buy their units retail (e.g. Consumer Reports, RTings). That said, as it currently stands, it would be trivial for an unscrupulous manufacturer to create fake user account(s) that send amirm their "personal" gear (ringer samples) for testing.

 

[amirm]

How about you inform them you need their gems for measurements only? See what they say... I am sure many will be more than willing to send their stuff to you ... maybe?

I have too much to review as is. So it makes no sense for me to go and ask someone give me gear. That said, I made such a request recently and the outfit said they want to review and approve anything I test. Others say that they only care about listening test reviews. Some others make me feel like an insurance salesman with, "what is in it for us for you to review our gear?"

The core of what we/I do here is to test products from members. And a few others I buy. And manufacturers who see the value in what we do and offer their gear on their own. It is a system that is working well and much better than requesting free gear from companies and relying on just that.