Going from bookshelves to floorstanders - advice

[airs]

I'm thinking about selling my Ascend Sierra 2 bookshelf speakers and getting floor standers. I'm happy with the Sierra 2, but I'm wondering what I'm missing out on by not having floor standers - classic audiophile, right? I do feel that my system is lacking a bit in the midrange slam.

My setup consists of:

FLAC files on unRAID server, Spotify for finding new stuff
Volumio x86 on HP T620 fanless thinclient
RME ADI-2 DAC FS
NC400 DIY monoblocks
Ascend Sierra 2
HSU ULS-15 MK2

I have a UMIK-1 and have just started to dabble in REW. I took some measurements, averaged them, and ouput as a WAV for Volumio/BruteFIR to use. It does sound smoother, but I think I'm just scratching the surface. I don't have any room treatments yet, unless you count carpet. My listening room is shaped like an L with the right channel speaker being in the corner (but not too near the walls). I haven't measured, but would guess its somewhere around 20Lx12Wx8H for one part of the L and 15Lx12Wx8H for the other part of the L (overlapping).

My budget is around $3000 and the research I've done so far has led me to consider the Revel Performa3 F206, KEF R900, and Sierra Tower with RAAL upgrade. Which, if any, would be a worthwhile upgrade over the Sierra 2's for my situation? Are there other options should I look into?

 

[sweetchaos]

That’s a well-respected speaker you have. Any chance of sending/loaning it to Amir for review?

 

[airs]

That’s a well-respected speaker you have. Any chance of sending/loaning it to Amir for review?

Yes, I have loaned Amir equipment in the past and will be loaning the Sierra 2 to him in February.

 

[777]

I'm thinking about selling my Ascend Sierra 2 bookshelf speakers and getting floor standers. I'm happy with the Sierra 2, but I'm wondering what I'm missing out on by not having floor standers - classic audiophile, right? I feel that my system is lacking a bit in the midrange slam.

My setup consists of:

FLAC files on unRAID server, Spotify for finding new stuff
Volumio x86 on HP T620 fanless thinclient
RME ADI-2 DAC FS
NC400 DIY monoblocks
Ascend Sierra 2
HSU ULS-15 MK2

I have a UMIK-1 and have just started to dabble in REW. I took some measurements, averaged them, and ouput as a WAV for Volumio/BruteFIR to use. It does sound smoother, but I think I'm just scratching the surface. I don't have any room treatments yet, unless you count carpet. My listening room is shaped like an L with the right channel speaker being in the corner (but not too near the walls). I haven't measured, but would guess its somewhere around 20Lx12Wx8H for one part of the L and 15Lx12Wx8H for the other part of the L (overlapping).

My budget is around $3000 and the research I've done so far has led me to consider the Revel Performa3 F206 and KEF R900. What other options should I look into? Would either of these be worthwhile upgrades over the Sierra 2's for my situation?

Kef R900 is very good speaker.

 

[sweetchaos]

That’s awesome. I’ve been thinking of these for a long time now. Appreciate it.

 

[Willem]

Or maybe get a second sub for much smoother response over a wider area. I would also get more serious about dsp room eq.

 

[GSAR]

Well if you like the sound of your Sierra bookshelfs than the most obvious upgrade path would be the Sierra Towers with the ribbon tweeter.

 

[sweetchaos]

Here's what Rob H, the host of AVRant on youtube has:

Front 3 speakers: Sierra Horizon ($1000usd/each) with RAAL ribbon tweeters ($350/ea upgrade).

So consider upgrading to 2 of those, for a total of $2700usd.

I believe Rob says that getting the RAAL ribbon tweeter is definitely worthwhile.

Food for thought.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

With $3000 see if you can get a pair of vintage JBL

 

[airs]

With $3000 see if you can get a pair of vintage JBL

Which JBL would those be?

 

[airs]

Or maybe get a second sub for much smoother response over a wider area. I would also get more serious about dsp room eq.

A second HSU would be nice! I’ll definitely continue my room correction adventure.

 

[Deleted member 65]

My budget is around $3000 and the research I've done so far has led me to consider the Revel Performa3 F206, KEF R900, and Sierra Tower with RAAL upgrade. Which, if any, would be a worthwhile upgrade over the Sierra 2's for my situation?

Had the KEF XQ40 a few years ago, sold after less then one year. R900 has similar mid/treble coax, XQ40’s coax esp treble never made it for me.

Suggest you listen to the R900.
My current speakers (3 setups) all have AMT treble drivers.

 

[goldark]

I'm thinking about selling my Ascend Sierra 2 bookshelf speakers and getting floor standers. I'm happy with the Sierra 2, but I'm wondering what I'm missing out on by not having floor standers - classic audiophile, right? I do feel that my system is lacking a bit in the midrange slam.

My setup consists of:

FLAC files on unRAID server, Spotify for finding new stuff
Volumio x86 on HP T620 fanless thinclient
RME ADI-2 DAC FS
NC400 DIY monoblocks
Ascend Sierra 2
HSU ULS-15 MK2

I have a UMIK-1 and have just started to dabble in REW. I took some measurements, averaged them, and ouput as a WAV for Volumio/BruteFIR to use. It does sound smoother, but I think I'm just scratching the surface. I don't have any room treatments yet, unless you count carpet. My listening room is shaped like an L with the right channel speaker being in the corner (but not too near the walls). I haven't measured, but would guess its somewhere around 20Lx12Wx8H for one part of the L and 15Lx12Wx8H for the other part of the L (overlapping).

My budget is around $3000 and the research I've done so far has led me to consider the Revel Performa3 F206, KEF R900, and Sierra Tower with RAAL upgrade. Which, if any, would be a worthwhile upgrade over the Sierra 2's for my situation? Are there other options should I look into?

I had the Sierra 2's and upgrading them to the EX's were a worthwhile upgrade, staying with bookshelf speakers. The towers with RAAL are a step up from the EX's, themselves - that would seem like the logical upgrade path to me.

Would love to see Amir measure the Sierra 2 EX's and see how they compare with Ascend's own measurements. From the looks of it, the EX's will eventually phase out the original 2's, so that might be useful for future consumers as well.

 

[dshreter]

I won’t argue against scratching the itch, but I do think there is an interesting philosophical question around the merit of floorstanding or full range speakers if you have a good subwoofer. I think looking at the data from REW is the starting point to see what it is you are really solving for. If you have room or placement issues, REW can really help you unpack that and improve the situation by dialing in your setup locations.

I’m not totally sure what midrange slam is, but are your Sierras crossed over with a high pass already? That could help.

 

[Ivanovich]

You could get recommendations, but I think you’re on the right track going for measurements first.

The speaker has to match the space acoustically (and often aesthetically). Bookshelf’s are meant for small rooms, or when the speakers need to go on a shelf, or close to walls. Moving them closer to the wall a bit could help to add some of the midbass it sounds like you’re lacking.

Towers may not make sense if the room is small or there isn’t enough space to leave around them. I’m guessing not since you considering them. Perhaps you have a larger space now and need higher SPLs? In that case, I think there are advantages to keeping the low bass in a separate box in two corners and one or two other strategic spots to fill in any remaining nulls. So adding subs may be good if you need to smooth out bass response.

If there's something off with the midrange (lower, I presume), you may want to investigate what’s causing that before plunking down $5K, hoping it’s better.

I think measurements to determine if there is a response problem or to guide you with placement and maybe room treatments is better. For me, until I know what’s wrong, I won’t know what needs fixing, and therefore not ready to choose new speakers. If you’re sub is booming at 100 Hz and you have deep nulls at 150-250 Hz, it could make the kick have less attack

Personally, I like using clearly and naturally recorded, female vocals for evaluating midrange. I like using that because it’s easiest to know when it’s wrong or right. Men’s voices can sound OK a little thicker (a little bassy), but female vocals will sound totally wrong. Once that’s right then EQ for <200Hz on mains and subs to get it all balanced.

Good luck on your quest!

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I won’t argue against scratching the itch, but I do think there is an interesting philosophical question around the merit of floorstanding or full range speakers if you have a good subwoofer. I think looking at the data from REW is the starting point to see what it is you are really solving for. If you have room or placement issues, REW can really help you unpack that and improve the situation by dialing in your setup locations.

I’m not totally sure what midrange slam is, but are your Sierras crossed over with a high pass already? That could help.

2 way bookshelf speakers compromise sound quality for smaller form factor and looks. A subwoofer does not substitute for the better directivity matching and control of a 3+ way floorstanding speaker.

 

[dshreter]

2 way bookshelf speakers compromise sound quality for smaller form factor and looks. A subwoofer does not substitute for the better directivity matching and control of a 3+ way floorstanding speaker.

That’s a great point, and something I was not thinking about. Is it easier to achieve good directivity by pursuing a narrower frequency response nonetheless? There are 3-way bookshelves too, so I’m still curious if there’s a general benefit to handing things off to a sub.

One thing I’ve noticed is subwoofers are designed pretty differently than general speakers too. For example servo drivers are a tech you generally don’t see in speakers besides subs. I’m not in a position to judge the technical merits, but it is surprising that full range speakers are not designed more like they have an integrated sub. I recall passive speakers with an integrated powered bass/subwoofer driver actually achieving some degree of popularity years ago, but this seems to have fallen out of favor as an approach.

 

[raistlin65]

2 way bookshelf speakers compromise sound quality for smaller form factor and looks. A subwoofer does not substitute for the better directivity matching and control of a 3+ way floorstanding speaker.

And yet, dual subwoofers, when well-placed, can overcome room modes in a way that tower speakers will not, and result in a smoother bass frequency response.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

And yet, dual subwoofers, when well-placed, can overcome room modes in a way that tower speakers will not, and result in a smoother bass frequency response.

Tower speaker does not prevent you from using subwoofers.

 

[raistlin65]

Tower speaker does not prevent you from using subwoofers.

Yeah, but unless one has an unlimited budget, you can't have your cake and eat it too.