Choosing a DAC for DSD playback?

[Music1969]

I’m giving you an actual, measured example where no audible high-frequency IMD exists in PCM or DSD case in the audible range

I also shared Jussi's figures above, of lower IMD measured... in audible range.... at DSD512...

I’m not sure why you feel the need to argue.

Not arguing. Just a friendly discussion

 

[pkane]

I also shared Jussi's figures above, of lower IMD measured... in audible range.... at DSD512...



Not arguing. Just a friendly discussion

Maybe you should ask Jussi what bandwidth was used for those IMD measurements.

 

[Music1969]

I’m not sure why you feel the need to argue. I said in the very first post that DSD might work better with some DACs, but not in the few cases I actually tested.

I've said the same thing repeatedly in this thread too... it can very much be case by case... there is no way to generalise across all DACs.

 

[terrys999]

What DAC are you using?

If it uses an ESS/AKM/TI (examples) DAC chip, there’s a good chance it resamples incoming PCM to a higher sample rate... I assume they do this because it is useful... and it’s not to add more information...

There are some that believe doing some DSP before the DAC can be useful...

Sabre dacs do not convert to pcm.

Here is a statement on this matter.


Statement on ess sabre dacs.

Most of inner details are not in the data sheet....Sabre DAC works in purely DSD mode, the signal path in this mode is 1 bit input >32 bit fader> DSD filter performed in DSD domain > 6 bit DSD (DS PWM) DAC > analog

The fact that the DAC is 6 bit DOES NOT mean it's not DSD. Basic DSD is 1 bit but it can be any number of bits, in the case 6 if it helps the performance.

Number 1 is a subset of 6 - a 6 bit DSD offers better D/A performance than 1 bit , that's why it's there. It's still DSD though. Sabre in DSD mode DOES NOT use interpolation filters or any other PCM processing ...In fact Sabre DAC sounds better in DSD mode because signal path is simpler.

Examples of non-direct Native processing is when a DAC uses a SABRE 90XX chipset. The DSD signal is digitally processed, usually to 6 or 8 bits but remains DSD and is treated with DSD filters (to remove noise shaping artifacts) and then sent to the analog side. One could argue that FPGA processing like PS Audio’s Directstream, where one bit DSD is converted to 30 bit, 30Mhz, then processed “down” to DSD128, is another example of non-direct Native DSD processing.

 

[Music1969]

Here is a statement on this matter.

Who wrote this statement?

 

[bennetng]

Even with PCM up-sampling, Archimago's measurements of his RME ADI-2 Pro... 16/44.1 vs 24/384 shows improvements...

So I'm, not sure about 'useless'. Whether you/can hear differences, who knows. There's objective data though...

View attachment 30510

View attachment 30509

These are not upsampling tests. RMAA generates test signals in different formats instead of taking a signal and upsample it. The original digital signals themselves already show different results without going through the analog chain:

Upsample tests are something like these:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rasonic-rf-output-important.10600/post-294860

 

[terrys999]

Who wrote this statement?

It’s here. Halfway down page .https://blog.nativedsd.com/the-nativity-of-native/
What’s your take?

 

[terrys999]

I own 2 sabre dacs
Arcam ess9016. and m dac plus. Ess9018 I called both company’s.
I questioned them. Both arcam and audiolab ,eventually spoke to engineers, designer.

They told me the same, dsd stays in the dsd domain.