Dell XPS 8930 RealTek HD Audio Interface Review

[DuxServit]

OEMs are *very* price sensitive when it comes to components, even 20 cents is a lot. Not surprised Dell XPS sounds crappy

 

[jcadduono]

I wonder how other components affect the noise/thd of onboard DACs. my board for example is ASUS Crosshair VIII Impact which has an addon board DAC which is pretty impressive looking, and according to this review it is fairly good measuring for a motherboard audio solution.
however despite those decent measurements, I can't help but hear my graphics card electrical noise through it which makes it completely unusable and drives me insane. if I just turn on auto hide taskbar, I can hear a grinding noise from my headphones every time the taskbar appears and disappears, or even when scrolling web pages. I think this is the case with many motherboard solutions, so even bad measurements during time of idle load are realistically much worse...

but hey, it has an excellent SPDIF optical output that likely saves me from any possible electrical interference of my graphics card!

oh yeah, in device manager, you can right click your realtek audio codec device and go to properties -> details tab -> property: hardware ids and copy the top one, in my case
HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_1220&SUBSYS_10438784&REV_1001
so mine would be ALC1220 for example, you might be able to google your DEV & SYBSYS for more accurate identification or something.

 

[KxDx]

Heck even look at Windows10 now, unless you're on an Enterprise edition, Windows Updates cannot be stopped, and the amount of incidents of forced updates creating unwanted effects (like settings being secretly turned on or off, and security flaws being introduced, and just general headaches for literally every Win10 user). I hate this OS with a passion. THE ONLY reason it has any relevency to me is I like to fire up games that only run on Windows (though Linux is getting wrappers that allow you to run things like Steam games on Linux). If it weren't for that, and a few other software used for performance tuning.. This OS I'd dump in a heartbeat. What a piece of trash honestly..

Amen to that! In 2 weeks when I'm on break, I'm "upgrading" my box to Win10 and I dread it. I keep hoping MS would give Windows 7 one last stay of execution, but I guess this is it.

I am going to miss that beautiful Aero interface. Sad that "the best windows ever" looks like you're using Windows 2.0 from the Reagan days.

 

[jcadduono]

Amen to that! In 2 weeks when I'm on break, I'm "upgrading" my box to Win10 and I dread it. I keep hoping MS would give Windows 7 one last stay of execution, but I guess this is it.

I am going to miss that beautiful Aero interface. Sad that "the best windows ever" looks like you're using Windows 2.0 from the Reagan days.

aw, I really like the windows 10 interface. it needs some customization to bring it back to windows 7 usability, but otherwise I think it's quite clean (using startisback++ and taskbar customizations): https://share.adduono.com/0cnx.png

Just be sure to install from USB stick using Media Creation Tool so you have a Windows 1909 installer. Microsoft has changed much and made it more power user friendly in recent releases of Windows 10. You can also use an offline account while having an internet connection since the 1803 installer, I think, contrary to what the next post says.

Oh, and ensure that you have your Realtek drivers installed and NOT the Microsoft ones. My ALC1220 has a crazy amount of background static when using the Microsoft Realtek drivers, that goes away as soon as the Realtek Audio Codec driver is loaded in Windows or Linux.
You will know if the Realtek drivers are installed if you can see the Realtek ASIO interface, but also check Device Manager.
You can find the latest Realtek drivers here: https://github.com/alanfox2000/realtek-hda-release/releases
@amirm I would maybe try again with this Realtek driver package for Dell if this is the case: https://github.com/alanfox2000/real...ell_3173.23_CML_MA9_181_340_4090_WHQL_MUP.zip
PCIE audio interfaces do not often work very well with Windows universal drivers, unlike USB.

 

[Dimitri]

Amen to that! In 2 weeks when I'm on break, I'm "upgrading" my box to Win10 and I dread it. I keep hoping MS would give Windows 7 one last stay of execution, but I guess this is it.

I am going to miss that beautiful Aero interface. Sad that "the best windows ever" looks like you're using Windows 2.0 from the Reagan days.

Not to hijack the thread or anything but...
The "best feature" of W10 for MS is the fact that when the machine detects a network connection out of the box, locks you in creating a Microsoft account. Alsys go through initial configuration with wifi off and network cable disconnected, unless you like that whole microsoft account business.
Everyone running any version of anything do so at their own risk. Perhaps W10 has a better "chance" of being "secure".
After all, every version is...."the most secure ever".

As for the XPS machine, I've connected to one remotely and it didn't seem to be the speed deamon I'd expected...

 

[bequietjk]

 

[KxDx]

Yeah I've got everything set up already. Fresh clean SSD for the OS (thanks Samsung black friday sale), USB stick to install from, all the business. First thing I always do is install a sane Start Menu (usually OpenShell, but I'll try Startisback too). It's just a headache to download and reinstall and configure everything all over again.


But... I won't derail this any farther.

 

[AudioSceptic]

This is a detailed measurement of the RealTek HD audio interface in my Dell XPS8930 Desktop system. The XPS 8930 retails for US $1,200 as of this writing so not a low-end desktop tower. Try as I might, I could not find the identity of the RealTek CODEC (ADC/DAC) used in it. Nothing shows up in device manager in Windows, nor can I find anything about it on Dell website.

I am using the Dell to create this review so all I could do for a picture is to use a stock image:

View attachment 42623​

The panther is real though.

There are both front and rear connections. I tested both and performance is the same.

Note that I am focusing on output only. Did not test the microphone.

As an aside, overall I have been happy with the reliability and performance of this Dell machine. Crapware in the form of invasive McAfee anti-virus has been my only issue (it was dumping most of my emails in junk folder).

Motherboard DAC Audio Measurements
I set the system level to 100% and ran my dashboard (using ASIO4ALL):
View attachment 42624

Ouch. Even at anemic 1 volt output we are clipping badly. As such, it takes the dishonor of showing the worst distortion and noise rating of any DAC tested:
View attachment 42625

Even without clipping, performance is poor:
View attachment 42626

If you are going to use this output, best keep the levels below -2 dB. Then again that may cause the downstream amplifier to not be able to reach its full power.

Multitone shows the performance when not clipped:

View attachment 42627

Sad.

Jitter test shows spurious tones and high noise floor:

View attachment 42628

Linearity is better than one would predict:
View attachment 42629

Reason being that linearity test filters out distortion and noise so provides better results.

Dynamic range test shows the high noise floor/low output level:

View attachment 42630

Headphone Power Measurements
Assuming you may be tempted to use the port just for headphone listening, I ran my usual power tests starting at 300 ohm:

View attachment 42631

Yuck! We can't even get one milliwatt of power before clipping? In a desktop with plenty of power?

Surely we can do better with 33 ohm load since that is not voltage hungry:
View attachment 42632

Are you kidding me? Once again it can't go beyond 1 milliwatt? What is going on here?

This is what is going on:
View attachment 42633

130 ohm output impedance! This internal impedance is eating power even with high impedance loads.

Conclusions
When I was at Microsoft my team was responsible for setting WHQL standards for PC OEMs. In a nutshell, if the PC OEM met those quality standards, they would get a discount on their Windows license. This was our way of enticing the PC OEMs to build better PCs. When I took on the program, the standards were so poor, you could do better with a cassette tape than a PC! So I asked that we raise this level. No sooner than we released the program that I heard cries from Dell/HP like you would not believe. They escalated up to CEO level I think. We stuck to our guns even though what we were asking them to achieve was still way less than what you can expect from 16 bit audio.

We see the results to driving costs down regardless of performance. A headphone amplifier that can't even produce 1 milliwatt of power. Yet Dell wastes money on crapware on effects and such for this interface. Shame on you guys for not spending another 50 cent interface to produce better audio.

Needless to say, you better use an external DAC/amp with these computers. If you don't, I will personally visit you so you do!

Total junk. Not remotely recommended.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

The sun is out today so forget what I said yesterday about lack of it and depression. I am now in party mood! And what is better for a party than Caviar with hard boiled eggs, diced onions and capers? The garnishes are cheap but now the good Caviar. So please donate to this good cause using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

When was hi-fi audio ever a concern with the average PC user? Surely anyone who cared would buy an external audio interface? The built-in audio is only there to provide the (mostly pointless?) interface sound effects in any case.

 

[tktran303]

When was hi-fi audio ever a concern with the average PC user? Surely anyone who cared would buy an external audio interface? The built-in audio is only there to provide the (mostly pointless?) interface sound effects in any case.

Correct.

No one (95-99%) of buying public don’t care. Why should OEMs waste more than 10c on inbuilt sound.

You have to remember the heritage of the PC with the PC Speaker (honker). And yes, you have the IBM and Microsoft alliance to thank for that.

It ain’t no Commodore or Amstrad...

 

[AudioSceptic]

On-board stuff would need some heavy shielding and board optimization in order to cut down on the noise level.

Really, if fidelity is remotely an issue, get something outboard, i.e. a USB DAC.

Like the $9 Apple adapter?

 

[jcadduono]

Correct.

No one (95-99%) of buying public don’t care. Why should OEMs waste more than 10c on inbuilt sound.

You have to remember the heritage of the PC with the PC Speaker (honker)

It ain’t no AMIGA or Amsterdam...

When OEMs can get away with advertising a board for its HiFi sound quality as a selling feature...

 

[jcbenten]

Back in 2005 I bought a Dell Latitude D610 and it had audible hiss, quite loud, that was a known issue. I ended up getting a SoundBlaster card for the PCMCIA slot. That was quite nice.

 

[amirm]

When was hi-fi audio ever a concern with the average PC user? Surely anyone who cared would buy an external audio interface?

The average PC user is precisely the one that uses that interface. It is more of an enthusiast thing to add an external DAC/Amp. I bet the average user doesn't even know what a DAC is!

I frequently hear whether an add-on DAC is necessary and that the internal interface must be good enough/transparent. We have data now that says it isn't so. That anyone half serious about audio should get an external device.

 

[PurpaSmart]

I remember a motherboard manufacturer put a tube amp on its motherboard back in the mid 2000's... I wonder how that measures...

 

[amirm]

I remember that too. Wonder if it was just lit but not used.

 

[KxDx]

I remember that too. Wonder if it was just lit but not used.

Ah, I remember that! It was AOpen...

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/aopentube/

Even though it was a gimmick, I have to admit they went all in.

 

[Azeia]

I wonder how other components affect the noise/thd of onboard DACs. my board for example is ASUS Crosshair VIII Impact which has an addon board DAC which is pretty impressive looking, and according to this review it is fairly good measuring for a motherboard audio solution.

That's interesting, I actually got myself a Crosshair VII Hero [non-wifi] recently (for my Ryzen 9 3950X build), and as you can see from that product page, it's a board that brags about it's audio quality quite a lot:

ROG's SupremeFX audio technology has levelled up, delivering an exceptional 113dB signal-to-noise ratio on the line-in connection to provide best-ever recording quality. We've also added a low-dropout regulator for cleaner power delivery to the SupremeFX S1220 codec, an ESS® Sabre Hi-Fi ES9023P digital-to-analog converter for superior front-panel output, and a Texas Instruments® RC4580 op amp for high gain with low distortion — all to deliver audio that envelops you as never before.

Since your Crosshair VIII Impact appears to measure ok (in those few limited measurements at least), I wonder if Asus isn't all talk after all.. hm

I can't help but hear my graphics card electrical noise through it which makes it completely unusable and drives me insane. if I just turn on auto hide taskbar, I can hear a grinding noise from my headphones every time the taskbar appears and disappears, or even when scrolling web pages.

Are you talking about the front panel headphone output on the chassis? Or are you going from the rear into an amp, or some speakers, and then using the amp or speakers' headphone output? If it's the front panel on the chassis, keep in mind that since you have a wire going from the front to the rear of the chassis, ideally that cable needs to be extremely well shielded too, so the quality of the chassis and it's cables would matter also.

 

[jcadduono]

Are you talking about the front panel headphone output on the chassis? Or are you going from the rear into an amp, or some speakers, and then using the amp or speakers' headphone output? If it's the front panel on the chassis, keep in mind that since you have a wire going from the front to the rear of the chassis, ideally that cable needs to be extremely well shielded too, so the quality of the chassis and it's cables would matter also.

It is through the green line out on the back of the motherboard. I actually wonder if maybe it would be less of an issue with the front port connector just because the FP header cable (it is not shield, unfortunately) goes directly to the audio board, then behind the grounded motherboard plate (hopefully acting as a shield from everything else) out to the front, where as the rear panel line out runs through some of the motherboard which is packed with components being ITX. I suppose I will have to try now, but I'll need a longer 3.5mm to RCA to reach the front.

 

[amirm]

oh yeah, in device manager, you can right click your realtek audio codec device and go to properties -> details tab -> property: hardware ids and copy the top one, in my case

Good hint. Here it is: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0899&SUBSYS_10280859&REV_1000

 

[beefkabob]

I picked up the Apple dongle in response to this. Doing an A and B between it and this alienware laptop's internal audio out, listening on a pair of JBL 104, all I can tell is that the Apple dongle seems a little bit quieter with the software and speaker all at the same settings. But i never claimed golden ears. More like tin can ears.