Review and Measurements of Loxjie D10 DAC & HP Amp

[confucius_zero]

So who here tried it? is it good?

 

[ninetylol]

Hello, just got my Loxjie D10 from Black friday deals. Connected it via rca to the SMSL SP200 and even without a Signal could hear some bad humming when turning up the volume. I did not have this problem via balanced SU-8.

I even can hear how noisy the different usb ports are, and even if i move the mouse i can hear that in the signal path. Its only audible at High gain and Lots of volume but still I dont know if thats a faulty unit or just usb powered normal stuff. Really disappointed

Ps: my rca cables are pretty good quality and I also tried a different micro usb cable. Happens with the other usb power Port and optical too. So its not a DAC, but power supply problem.

 

[L5730]

Hello and welcome to the 'fun' of ground loops and unbalanced audio!

 

[ninetylol]

Hello and welcome to the 'fun' of ground loops and unbalanced audio!

So this is normal with RCA connects? Shouldnt this Show up in the measurements though?

 

[L5730]

SMSL SP200 has a 3-pin mains power connector. It is grounded to the mains earth.
The Loxjie DAC is connected via USB (+5v, D+, D-, common ground) to your computer, which I am guessing is a desktop or a laptop with 3-pin power supply?
The Loxjie DAC and SMSL amp are connected with unbalanced audio cables (signal, ground/shield).

You now have a ground loop. Mains earth connected at both ends and a ground connection all the way through the USB cable and unbalanced audio cables.

If your source is a laptop on battery or powered by a double-insulated DC power supply, then you wouldn't have a ground loop. Only one connection to the mains ground, despite everything else sharing a ground connection. I think Amir tests with a laptop, and so ground loops aren't an issue for him.

Hang on....you mention you connected via optical on the Loxjie DAC. How did you power the DAC? From a USB battery or DC power brick, or still from a mains connected computer?

I am making some assumptions here. If you list your chain completely and in a detailed way, we may be able to spot an easy solution.

 

[ninetylol]

SMSL SP200 has a 3-pin mains power connector. It is grounded to the mains earth.
The Loxjie DAC is connected via USB (+5v, D+, D-, common ground) to your computer, which I am guessing is a desktop or a laptop with 3-pin power supply?
The Loxjie DAC and SMSL amp are connected with unbalanced audio cables (signal, ground/shield).

You now have a ground loop. Mains earth connected at both ends and a ground connection all the way through the USB cable and unbalanced audio cables.

If your source is a laptop on battery or powered by a double-insulated DC power supply, then you wouldn't have a ground loop. Only one connection to the mains ground, despite everything else sharing a ground connection. I think Amir tests with a laptop, and so ground loops aren't an issue for him.

Hang on....you mention you connected via optical on the Loxjie DAC. How did you power the DAC? From a USB battery or DC power brick, or still from a mains connected computer?

I am making some assumptions here. If you list your chain completely and in a detailed way, we may be able to spot an easy solution.

Hello and thanks for your input. The Loxjie D10 has a separate micro usb for Power if you wanna use optical. I used that and connected the other end to a usb Port on the PC which had the exact same problem.

BUT I think i just fixed the problem. I connected an old Asus Nexus 7 wall charger to the Loxjie D10 and no hum noise at all with optical input. The Asus Charger is connected to the same ground as the amp so guess this is working!

 

[L5730]

@ninetylol That Asus Nexus charger is actually insulated. This means that the +5v and ground on the USB connector are not related the the mains earth.
Optical obviously has no ground connection at all.

So now you have broken the ground loop by powering the unbalanced DAC from an insulated power supply and using optical from your computer - there is now no common ground connection between computer and headphone amp, they only share the same mains earth - no loop.

So there you go, that's why balanced is desirable. Balanced has signal +, signal - and ground. With the two signals being exactly opposite phase, the noise is deleted from the signal at the amplifier end. Also, the common ground in balanced can be left to float at one end without much of a problem (I'm sure there are good reasons to connect it, unless you have a ground loop of course).

Hoorah!

 

[CopperFox]

I picked up one of these to use at work with (relatively) power-hungry planar magnetic hybrid iems.

At first I was confused as the sound quality and even frequency response was apparently changing a lot without explanation. However, I found that the reason for this was that I was changing the power source for the dac.

The manual states that the device needs a 5 volt input, that the device should not be used with a phone in the usb input if there is no other power source connected and that quick charge power sources should not be used as they could sometimes provide more than 5 volts which could be "dangerous for this unit". The required amperage was not defined in the manual.

With only a phone or a pc connected or even with some old chargers connected in the external power slot as well, I found the sound could be clearly lacking especially in the low end.

I'm now using the D10 with a three-slot charger that has two 5V ("up to 3.4A") non-QC slots (the D10 connected to one of these slots) and one 87W PD slot and the sound is really great.

What kind of power source was used with these measurements? The SINAD result appears to be 5db less than the manufacturer's own published measurements. I think I'll contact them as well to ask about the required amperage.


EDIT: I checked the older chargers that I had used at first that made the sound weird. Both are specified as 5V and only 1.0A. So apparently you need a charger that is 5V, more than 1.0A and non-QC to get the best sound here.

 

[ninetylol]

I dont think this little guy pulls more then 5 Watt but maybe someone can measure Power consumption.

 

[magicscreen]

It could be that the older chargers have more noise.

 

[CopperFox]

I measured the power consumption from the wall socket with the D10 connected to the two 5V 1A chargers and the triple-slot charger.

With the 5V 1A chargers, the consumption was at an unchanging one watt.
With the triple-slot charger, the consumption mostly stayed at 10.1 watts with peaks at 20.24 watts.

The idle power consumption for the consumption monitor was 1 W and with any of the chargers connected at idle, it did not go higher than this.


EDIT: took a closer look at the triple-slot charger and it says the "up to 3.4A" is for both non-QC slots combined, while the two individual slots are 2.4A. There are 5V and 3A chargers available and I'll probably be trying one of those as well.

 

[ninetylol]

I measured the power consumption from the wall socket with the D10 connected to the two 5V 1A chargers and the triple-slot charger.

With the 5V 1A chargers, the consumption was at an unchanging one watt.
With the triple-slot charger, the consumption mostly stayed at 10.1 watts with peaks at 20.24 watts.

The idle power consumption for the consumption monitor was 1 W and with any of the chargers connected at idle, it did not go higher than this.


EDIT: took a closer look at the triple-slot charger and it says the "up to 3.4A" is for both non-QC slots combined, while the two individual slots are 2.4A. There are 5V and 3A chargers available and I'll probably be trying one of those as well.

Are you using the amp part too? I was using the dac part only and cant think of a way this guy pulls more then 1 Ampere when other das with same chip and more features only use 1 Ampere. (Topping D50S for example which comes with its own linear power supply at 5v1a)

 

[confucius_zero]

Just ordered one, I'll compare it against my vintage 1200$ REGA DAC and hear the differences. Not using it as amp, just dac.

 

[CopperFox]

Are you using the amp part too? I was using the dac part only and cant think of a way this guy pulls more then 1 Ampere when other das with same chip and more features only use 1 Ampere. (Topping D50S for example which comes with its own linear power supply at 5v1a)

To my surprise having the headphone amp on/off didn't seem to have an effect on power consumption measured from socket.

However, from some further playing around, I did notice that the my aforementioned power consumption readings stayed the same even if I unplugged the usb power cable from the dac (meaning the usb cable was only connected to the charger and nothing on the other end). The consumption did go down on the three-slot charger if I unplugged the usb cable from that completely.

Also noticed that the power consumption monitor says my JDS Atom amp's PSU consumes 20W just from being plugged in.

 

[magicscreen]

To my surprise having the headphone amp on/off didn't seem to have an effect on power consumption measured from socket.

However, from some further playing around, I did notice that the my aforementioned power consumption readings stayed the same even if I unplugged the usb power cable from the dac (meaning the usb cable was only connected to the charger and nothing on the other end). The consumption did go down on the three-slot charger if I unplugged the usb cable from that completely.

Also noticed that the power consumption monitor says my JDS Atom amp's PSU consumes 20W just from being plugged in.

I always pull out the power adapter when not using the Atom. The adapter becomes hot.

 

[CopperFox]

There were some comments previously on the dac's form factor itself, also in the review hoping for at least the headphone plug to be front-facing.

Well, that can be done for example with this --> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32877013266.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.44c74c4dz0MLRA . I ordered that along with some 90 degee micro usb to usb-c adapters. This way, I will have the usb input and headphone input towards the front and usb power to the rear. With these, I can install the dac in a narrow shelf space so the form factor can actually have some unusal versatility as well. Due to the triangle shape, these adapters won't add much to its width.

The only thing i'm really hoping for here is MQA support. There aren't any devices with that in this price/performance range yet afaik. If they make a new version with that, I'll be buying it instantly.

 

[confucius_zero]

When a bad case of ESS Hump comes to ruin an amazing budget DAC, the hyper micro detailed Loxjie D10 becomes a migraine enducing detail attack on the mind through the ears, similar to a sennheiser HD800.

Compared to my 2012 REGA DAC, it delivers superior soundstage, resolution, imaging, depth, speed and rhythm. It is impressive at first. However, like a peaky chifi, it tends to extend treble a little too high for comfort. It's like pepper, at some point it becomes too spicy.

Even old, my 2012 REGA DAC keeps it warm and romantic with weighty and generous midrange makes the source ooze of musicality.

I somewhat believe the migraine could be due to the measured ESS Hump of the product that might mess the mids.

I'll be looking forward to trying out a version of this dac sans ESS Hump in the Topping D50s.

 

[magicscreen]

I somewhat believe the migraine could be due to the measured ESS Hump of the product that might mess the mids.

I do not think so.
A lots of users using the Khadas Tone Board with similar ESS IMD hump. Has every user had a headache?

And here the IMD measurement of the R2R 11 with IMD hump mountains:

The R2R 11 is a warm analog sounding DAC. It is not harsh at all.

 

[confucius_zero]

Just compared it with a no hump ESS implementation: the Topping D10. The treble attack was tamed, no migraine.

 

[BYRTT]

...Just compared it with a no hump ESS implementation: the Topping D10. The treble attack was tamed, no migraine...

Hope it can help your situation inform that myself had Khadas Tone board inclusive ESS hump for a year or so and there's no treble attack or migraine signature bonded to it, mostly subjective plus objective it was compared/benched up to a M-Audio AP192 PCI card and for half a month or so it had ran up against RME ADI-2 Pro fs.

Suggest you try out some free objective bench program as REW or so to find out if there area any objective clues when for example you compare benched numbers for Loxjie verse Topping unit.