Uptone EtherREGEN

[Thomas savage]

Wait, photon torpedoes aren't real? Next you'll be saying no warp drive, no transporters, no Spock... I swear if you say there's no Santa Claus I'm going to get Thomas and we're heading to your place to straighten you out!

Amirm is beyond belief, we all saw them putting spock in a photon torpedo when he died and firing his body to that planet where he was reborn.

Bloody Amirm rewriting history.

 

[pkane]

Do they? I've not seen evidence of rational thought process by proponents, just "you have to listen!".

Can't say about all of them, obviously There is a possibility of noise leaking from upstream into the DAC and affecting analog output. This happens to some degree with USB input, and I see no reason it can't happen with Ethernet. For USB, this effect was demonstrated by Amir for some poorly designed DACs. I did something similar and measured tiny differences caused by USB cables at the analog output, but these were way below audible level.

 

[Deleted member 65]

^^^ Well stated, Sir Thomas. Hope you get the weekend off! (I was at 40 hours by early Thursday morning, with at least another 20 or so to go this week, making it hard to practice in the evening. Then I waste time posting nonsense.)

Two of the greats with ASR is @Thomas savage & @amirm , full circle with the two ...

 

[mansr]

There is a possibility of noise leaking from upstream into the DAC and affecting analog output. This happens to some degree with USB input, and I see no reason it can't happen with Ethernet.

The big difference is that Ethernet has transformers, so common-mode noise and anything at audio frequencies is already blocked pretty well.

 

[RayDunzl]

If I have a well buffered playback system and I start playing back a track and have the port shut down or cable removed and can't tell a difference in sound then yes I'm absolutely certain it can't IMPROVE the playback

Gee, I have a power amp that will play on for 30 seconds or so after the power cable is removed.

Do you think that would convince anyone the power cord can't improve playback?

Pulling the plug or saving the files to disk will not prove anything to the believers

Oh well...

Pulling the plug is a good test though.

Ah, there's still hope...

 

[pkane]

The big difference is that Ethernet has transformers, so common-mode noise and anything at audio frequencies is already blocked pretty well.

Right. That’s one of the reasons I use Ethernet between PC and the DAC. That leaves the possibility of higher frequency noise that might sneak in and affect the clock or other parts of the digital circuit. A small possibility, most likely inaudible, but would be nice to see the measurements confirming this.

 

[dc655321]

The big difference is that Ethernet has transformers, so common-mode noise and anything at audio frequencies is already blocked pretty well.

And twisted-pair, shielded cabling. Several electrical advantages, noise-wise.
USB cabling is a crap-shoot.

 

[March Audio]

Full Ack.

Nonetheless I can see a very(!) faint mechanism where an electrically better switch could make a difference, and that would be some extreme RF-susceptibility of the DAC. The digital section might be producing more jitter on the final DAC-chip's data/clock lines, and/or it sneakes directly into the analog signal path via demodulation), DAC probably part of a streamer etc. Though it would be really tough to design such a piece of sh!t on purpose, as a design excercise, haha....

EDIT: ah, crossposted with Paul ;-)

I would actually disagree with this if the DAC is being fed by a PC. A PC is already full of RF garbage so this switch on the front end will make no difference. Plus don't forget that ethernet is isolated. It's not impossible for RF to get past this but still.

Good dacs are just not affected by the usb source. A point the audiophiles always seem to ignore. If they are hearing an improvement it means their DAC is a POS . They don't like it when you suggest that

 

[March Audio]

Pulling the plug is a good test though. Say I am monitoring the distortion and noise in real time with my analyzer and I pull the plug as the streamer keeps feeding the DAC. Surely the measurements of the DAC output would change if the upstream switch is doing some good.

Can you try this with an ordinary switch? Surely it will be horribly noisy so we are bound to see an improvement.

 

[amirm]

Can you try this with an ordinary switch? Surely it will be horribly noisy so we are bound to see an improvement.

Sure.

 

[GradyBeach247]

This thing is receiving rave reviews on another audiophile site, natch, including the improvement after 30 hours of break-in. There is some serious misunderstanding of the path the signal takes from ethernet to DAC...

But how do the data packets know how to cross the moat unless the trailblazers marked a path? You can only get this with burn-in. I'd say years and years of burn-in, at least outside any free return period.

 

[KSTR]

Good dacs are just not affected by the usb source. A point the audiophiles always seem to ignore. If they are hearing an improvement it means their DAC is a POS . They don't like it when you suggest that

Exactly. I as well get a lot of flak from the golden ears whenever I dare mention this most basic notion: Instantly throw away a dac that really sounds different -- while still being fed bit-perfect data -- with any change of digital input cable, PC player software, operating system, data media, and finally the upstream switch and its cables and lets not forget its power supply. But that suggestion is already above their heads as they refuse to get a handle on that single bold-faced word above...

 

[March Audio]

Exactly. I as well get a lot of flak from the golden ears whenever I dare mention this most basic notion: Instantly throw away a dac that really sounds different -- while still being fed bit-perfect data -- with any change of digital input cable, PC player software, operating system, data media, and finally the upstream switch and its cables and lets not forget its power supply. But that suggestion is already above their heads as they refuse to get a handle on that single bold-faced word above...

Yeah it confounds them.

"Why is your dac affected by the cable (or whatever)? It shouldn't be doing that, why is it sensitive to this? What's wrong with it?"

Or is it just fine, the only changes were imagined.

Such obvious logic and yet.....

 

[Thomas savage]

View attachment 38986

May they always be so...

Some fantasy's you should really keep to yourself..

 

[Jinjuku]

I will join in. From my 50 port switch:
View attachment 38853
View attachment 38854

Not a single error across many active ports. Port g49 is actually fiber to a switch and then another switch and then a security camera that is running 24/7. Between the last two switches there is some 300 feet of copper.

Here is an MDF I put in a few months ago:

 

[amirm]

Just remembered that Alex ("Superdad") from Uptone once volunteered to pass a blind test of his USB Regen if the test was conducted at this home, with his system and music. I said yes:

He went dark after that. You can see how straight he is with people and how much confidence he really has in his device.

I am happy to do this with his EtherRegen device. I am confident he has no prayer of passing such a test with his ears, his music and his system. John (his designer) can also come and listen.

I hope people consider the logic here of me volunteering to spend my own money to show how ineffective these devices are. And how these people talk big about the boxes they have built, but ask them to tell their box apart with their eyes closed, and they run away. Fast....

 

[Thomas savage]

Yea but as soon as you enact test protocols you create a artificial phycological state of being that invalidates the listening conclusions..

We have to go back to its technical merits ..... Oh.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Maybe when John develops the gear to measure what he already designs gear to do he will also be able to hear it. Alas thus far business is too good to stop and figure out what it is this stuff is doing.

 

[amirm]

Devices like this prove that all you need to impress an audiophile is a technical story. The rest takes care of itself. In reality, the device doesn't have to do a thing audibly. The listener happily manufactures that due to improper testing.

This is why every audio device or tweak, regardless of how outlandish its premise, gets people to say it improved the "sound" of their system.

Why audiophiles don't stop for a moment and think how improbable all of this is, is the wonder of our time.

They say "everything matters." Well, how come changing the wrapper on a hamburger doesn't make it taste different, yet doing the equivalent in audio does? The ear is so much easier to fool than the taste buds it seems....

 

[CTRLM]

Well it seems at least one customer has admitted not hearing a difference with it in their system. From AS about an hour ago:

Okay, so after 100+ hours of "burn in," I got to spend all afternoon with the ER in and out of my system. I invited my wife to come and hear the difference. I invited my audiophile buddy to come over and hear the difference.

Everyone's jaws dropped...when I told them I had paid $640 for something that nobody could detect a difference in SQ with.