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Audible difference in players? (Audirvana, JRiver, Roon, MusicBee, etc.)

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MediumRare

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By default, I ran everything through the windows mixer, and I configured the Schiit modi 3 DAC to play at 44.1khz, which is the sample rate of all the music I listen to.
Are you using WASAPI or ASIO? If not, pretty sure the Windows Mixer is messing with your bitstream - check your settings and try one of them if they're available. The difference should be readily audible. Caveat: I'm not a computer expert by any stretch, just going off my personal experience.
 

mitchco

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https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...om-each-other-and-why.8269/page-3#post-208554

These tests also include the procedures on how to record the digital (and analog) outputs and compare (both audibly and visually) so with a minimal amount of gear, virtually anyone can repeat these tests and get the same results. Short answer - bit perfect is bit perfect regardless of software music player. Feel free to prove otherwise with any waveform or music comparisons that one can repeat as done in the articles linked above.
 

Vapor9

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I would not believe it without evidence, just because someone says so.

Just my unscientific observation. Much like I believe that my older NAD integrated does not sound as good as my Wyred4Sound preamp/ncore amp combo - I have no scientific proof, but I do trust my ears.
 
OP
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Berwhale

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It may be possible to compare the output of players by capturing the USB packets generated by them using something like...

https://desowin.org/usbpcap/

I've only used Wireshark for basic network packet capture and analysis. I'll have a play with it over the week-end and see if I can listen in on the conversation between MusicBee and my Topping D50s.

*Update* I had a play with Free USB Analyzer, I can capture the traffic from MusicBee to the D50s, however, I don't believe it would be possible to compare the output of two players without extracting and re-assembling the PCM data stream from the packet captures (because the PCM data will not be aligned within the USB packets).

So I thought about alternative approaches further up the driver/protocol stack. I found this ASIO Virtual Cable with ASIO bridge functionality. I believe this will allow me plug one end of the 'cable' into the output of the player software (Foobar, etc.) and connect the other 'end' to PCM recording software such as Audacity. The resulting .wav files could then be compared.
 

Rja4000

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It doesn't, and you can experience posps/clicks with software players because of that. You can use DPC Latency Checker utility to check how it goes with your Windows. It has been writeen by Thesycon, the same company that wrote ASIO drivers for Windows and for many HW USB DACs.
I know the tool.
I used it several times to "tune" a PC for 32 tracks recording.
What I learned with it is that we have no clue what the PC is doing in the background that could impact proper timing of sound transmission.
When properly set, a dedicated PC is basically perfect. When not, that can be very random.
 

Krunok

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I know the tool.
I used it several times to "tune" a PC for 32 tracks recording.
What I learned with it is that we have no clue what the PC is doing in the background that could impact proper timing of sound transmission.
When properly set, a dedicated PC is basically perfect. When not, that can be very random.

It's not really about your PC, but about Windows operating system. That same PC would work just fine with Linux playing audio files. In fact, any PC would.
 

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https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...om-each-other-and-why.8269/page-3#post-208554

These tests also include the procedures on how to record the digital (and analog) outputs and compare (both audibly and visually) so with a minimal amount of gear, virtually anyone can repeat these tests and get the same results. Short answer - bit perfect is bit perfect regardless of software music player. Feel free to prove otherwise with any waveform or music comparisons that one can repeat as done in the articles linked above.

Ah, I see Maty beat me to the virtual cable + Audacity idea.
 

Rja4000

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It's not really about your PC, but about Windows operating system. That same PC would work just fine with Linux playing audio files. In fact, any PC would.
The problem is that it's not about the software you install, most of the time.
This could be fixed by giving higher priority to audio processes.
It's mainly linked to interrupts and hardware-related drivers. Those, you have little visibility and even less way to change their behaviour.
You can just disable or remove some driver to improve things, somehow.
 

Fluffy

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Are you using WASAPI or ASIO? If not, pretty sure the Windows Mixer is messing with your bitstream - check your settings and try one of them if they're available. The difference should be readily audible. Caveat: I'm not a computer expert by any stretch, just going off my personal experience.
Ok, I'm willing to give anything a try. So I went like this –

I took a number of songs which I'm familiar with, some in flac 44.1khz and one in flac 96khz (I changed the sampling rate to 96 before listening to this one of course). On one hand there is Winamp going through windows mixer to Schiit Modi, from there to Arcam rHead and finally to Audeze lcd2c. on the other hand, Adobe Audition going straight to the Schii Modi using ASIO. The switch between them is just pausing one player and hitting play on the second.

I switched back on forth using all the songs. Didn't notice any difference. I did noticed obvious difference when I re-engaged my APO equalizer and listen to the songs through my custom curve for the lcd, and that really made the most improvement ;)
 

garson

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Did anyone try those "highend" players like JPlay, XXHighEnd, HQPlayer etc.? Especially it is interesting what creators of such players state about their software and how they are better than others.
 

Julf

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Did anyone try those "highend" players like JPlay, XXHighEnd, HQPlayer etc.? Especially it is interesting what creators of such players state about their software and how they are better than others.

I think JRiver stated it pretty well: Jplay is a Hoax

Oh, by the way, I got a lifetime ban on Computer Audiophile for pointing out that one of those (with "inner rendering loop optimized by ear" was claiming to be open source, but refused to release the source code (that was based on another open source software player) for public scrutiny.
 

garson

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Here's another interesting piece of software, not a player but related to subject. Author is same person behing another "audiophile" player, Bughead Emperor.
http://www.mics.ne.jp/~coolverse/MinorityClean/index.html
A utility that cleans up the CPU registers. It matches the internal circuit standard of the memory chip.
Achieves high image quality and high sound quality simply by staying at a load factor of 0.00%. Service registration (SYSTEM) allows you to maintain a clean state at all times. Even in a poor quality power supply environment, it will be in the state of using a high quality power supply, which will help to solve unreproducible troubles.
...
Source code is also provided.
Anyone with dev knowledge can take a look and provide some feedback on this?
Looks like witchcraft to me. :)
 

Julf

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Looks like witchcraft to me. :)

At least it matches the "obscure and incomprehensible incantations" part. Yes, source code is technically available, it is coded in in-line assembler inside PureBasic containers. Urgh!
 

Tks

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Audible? Doubt that, though I can verify thet Foobar for instance cannot play bit-perfect 32-bit files like JRiver can.
 

Julf

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Audible? Doubt that, though I can verify thet Foobar for instance cannot play bit-perfect 32-bit files like JRiver can.

32 bit floating point or integer? Anyway, what is the point if the best DACs do less than 22 bits?
 

ryohnosuke

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This is my honest subjetive opinion. I don't know if these players do something to the bits with default config.

* Roon and Volumio sounds the same. I think both are bitperfect.
* Audirvana try to enhance the music but sounds boomy on my system.
* Daphile sounds little bit harsh (and weak?)

Is the another player with Tidal support?

I will try to record all when my Adi2 Pro FS arrive.
 

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