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Review and Measurements of HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro

BillG

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Anmol

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For whom so ever this may benefit -
I have used Hifiberry dac Pro version and it sounds thin as if there is a lack of fullness in music notes. sometimes top end sounds harsh. It just might be my aging ears. I own other hifiberry products as well (amp+ version is a good amp for low volume listening with integrated dac). However Khadas tone board is a money very well spent. right now I am enjoying listening to music through tidal with KTB + Atom through hifiman sundara. I have more than a few dacs and so called high end gear and without a doubt KTB is best bang for the buck out there. if you are looking for a dac+amp and would like to do this on super tight budget-US$200 combined -:). I cant recommend KTB + atom enough. better than hifiberry pro without a doubt and by a long shot.
I have a chord electronics 2qute - I cant tell difference between 2qute and KTB. KTB=US$99, 2qute US$1700. Now that Amir has restored my sanity, i have stopped giving away my retirement money to so called audiophile product companies.
PS- Topping products rock too as they are top performance for reasonable price point. I own an NX4DSD and drive Beyerdynamic T1 and it sounds very good through it.
 

Xulonn

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I have used Hifiberry dac Pro version and it sounds thin as if there is a lack of fullness in music notes. sometimes top end sounds harsh. It just might be my aging ears.

Sounds like a component compatibility issue. Unless the HiFiBerry is defective, it should sound just fine. What you describe sounds like very high distortion.

I would be interested in the opinions of some of our resident experts on this.
 

Anmol

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Sounds like a component compatibility issue. Unless the HiFiBerry is defective, it should sound just fine. What you describe sounds like very high distortion.

I would be interested in the opinions of some of our resident experts on this.
I am being overly sensitive and picky with sound quality given current fabulous choice. hifiberry pro dac is setup with recommended version of pi running usual volumio app in hardware mixer and L2S mode. hardware doesn't appear faulty but given this is an audio science forum...... obviously i haven't tested gear with instrumentation.
 

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Many people claim that the HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro sounds better with an separate low noise power supply. I personally doubt this if you take a good, stable power supply. But it would be very interesting to see if the distortions above 10kHz e.g. go away respective they are induced by the noisy Raspi voltage.
 

xarkkon

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Sounds like a component compatibility issue. Unless the HiFiBerry is defective, it should sound just fine. What you describe sounds like very high distortion.

I would be interested in the opinions of some of our resident experts on this.
Been using Hifiberry dac for almost a year now and haven't had any issues with thinness of sound or harsh top end. That being said, I haven't had a chance to compare it against the Khadas or Toppings so can't say that it isn't as good as those 2 brands.
 

LTig

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[..]
I tried to run my 32-tone test file at 192 kHz but could not get any output. Not sure where the problem may be. So I settled for 7 tone signal at 44.1 kHz:
View attachment 31694

Generally the distortion floor is below -90 dB but some spikes show up at higher frequencies, rising to almost -70 dB. So again we are some dBs short of transparency for 16 bit signal.
I have a two questions regarding the 7-tone signal:
  • Why do you show the peaks at 0 dB? In theory [1] adding 7 signals of 0 dB each results in a level of +17 dB so the sum signal has to be reduced by 17 dB to not clip the DAC. Then I would expect the peaks at - 17 dB - meaning the whole curve is shifted down by 17 dB and consequently also the levels of noise and distortion products
  • Could you reveal the exact properties (frequency, level, phase) of the 7-tone signal, please?
[1] In praxis the sum of the signals can be much lower then +17 dB, as it is for the 31-multitone signal. It's always more than 0 dB though.
 
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CRKebschull

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Been using Hifiberry dac for almost a year now and haven't had any issues with thinness of sound or harsh top end. That being said, I haven't had a chance to compare it against the Khadas or Toppings so can't say that it isn't as good as those 2 brands.

I have the XLR version of the HifiBerry connected directly to Hypex NC400 monoblocks. I have done blind (ABX) testing with iFi micro iDAC 2 and was unable to consistently tell a difference.

Now, you may say that both these DACs that I have are in the same league (and although Amir hasn't tested the iDAC 2 explicitly, it is mentioned in comparison to individual tests done on other products, and my impression is that indeed, they are in the same (orange) tier of DACs on Amir's SINAD scale), and that's fair, as we expect any non-broken DAC implementation with similar SINAD and IMD and other metrics to sound exactly the same.

The ALLO and OrchardPi products are expensive (for RPi HATs - but very affordable in comparison to desktop DACs!) Of interest would be if you can hear a difference between the newly tested AUDIOPHONICS DAC I-Sabre ES9038Q2M with its modest price and the HifiBerry. I am not sure you can, but there's only one way to find out... ABX. ;)
 
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geckos

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I have the XLR version of the HifiBerry connected directly to Hypex NC400 monoblocks. I have done blind (ABX) testing with iFi micro iDAC 2 and was unable to consistently tell a difference.

Now, you may say that both these DACs that I have are in the same league (and although Amir hasn't tested the iDAC 2 explicitly, it is mentioned in comparison to individual tests done on other products, and my impression is that indeed, they are in the same (orange) tier of DACs on Amir's SINAD scale), and that's fair, as we expect any non-broken DAC implementation with similar SINAD and IMD and other metrics to sound exactly the same.

The ALLO and OrchardPi products are expensive (for RPi HATs - but very affordable in comparison to desktop DACs!) Of interest would be if you can hear a difference between the newly tested AUDIOPHONICS DAC I-Sabre ES9038Q2M with its modest price and the HifiBerry. I am not sure you can, but there's only one way to find out... ABX. ;)
I think that would be an interesting comparison, indeed!
An HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro with two NC400 Hypex modules in one case ... Would'nt that be a best performer in price/quality relation, what are your thoughts about that?
Regards
 
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CRKebschull

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I think that would be an interesting comparison, indeed!
An HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro with two NC400 Hypex modules in one case ... Would'nt that be a best performer in price/quality relation, what are your thoughts about that?
Regards, filigran

Indeed, that's what I have in the main stereo: HifiBerry DAC+ Pro XLR (on a RPi 3B+ connected via Ethernet) connected via XLR to monoblock Hypex NC400 amps (a bit more expensive than the stereo NC400 implementation which is just two NC400 and one PSU in one case) going to Teufel Genion 3. Streaming is via Roon, and REW is used for room correction.

It was the most bang for the buck in an "audiophile" balanced stereo setup with streamer + DAC + amps + speakers that I could find, after a very long and detailed search and much reading of much information.

What remains to improve, without spending waaay more? Not much.
There aren't so many Balanced XLR DAC HATs - hence my great interest in the measurements here on ASR.
 
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amirm

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I have a two questions regarding the 7-tone signal:
  • Why do you show the peaks at 0 dB? In theory [1] adding 7 signals of 0 dB each results in a level of +17 dB so the sum signal has to be reduced by 17 dB to not clip the DAC. Then I would expect the peaks at - 17 dB - meaning the whole curve is shifted down by 17 dB and consequently also the levels of noise and distortion products
  • Could you reveal the exact properties (frequency, level, phase) of the 7-tone signal, please?
[1] In praxis the sum of the signals can be much lower then +17 dB, as it is for the 31-multitone signal. It's always more than 0 dB though.
The vertical scale is in dBr or dB relative. As such, "0" can be any output voltage. I adjust the reference for dBr manually until it reads zero in that graph. That way, the distortion products can be read easily. Note that this is an analog voltage level so no association with digital samples.

As to the signal make up, they have varying phase so they don't add up linearity:

1566666059445.png
 

LTig

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The vertical scale is in dBr or dB relative. As such, "0" can be any output voltage. I adjust the reference for dBr manually until it reads zero in that graph. That way, the distortion products can be read easily. Note that this is an analog voltage level so no association with digital samples.

Understood, thanks.

As to the signal make up, they have varying phase so they don't add up linearity:

View attachment 31919

Are these frequencies (namely Tone Bin and Phase) of both 7 tone and 31 tone created by the AP software, or do you have any influence on them?

I'm thought that the Tone Bins are chosen such that the bin number of any higher tone is not dividable by the bin number of all lower tones. At least for the highest tone here this is not true because its bin number (1995) is devidable by 5 (bin number of 2nd tone). OTOH it would probably not change the result in a relevant way...
 

CRKebschull

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What is Teufel Genion 3? Can't find such a system...

Sorry, I shouldn't be typing when it's past my bedtime! The Teufel Definion 3 (mine are black... and I still had it easy, as my wife sat down with me and helped me do the best approximation of AB(X) comparisons we could, turning the amps off and on, switching speakers and trying to adjust the volume as best as possible, to my previous setup - Monitor Audio Silver RS6 - and said yeah, the Teufel sound better, keep them!) are a nice set of affordable speakers that have coaxial mid+tweaters:

1566767298501.png


and as such have pretty decent off-axis response for the minimal price:

1566767357601.png


Decay is also pretty decent:

1566767386344.png


Decent enough to make it very reasonable to have REW take care of the bit under 500 Hz.

Very well paired with NC400.
 
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amirm

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Are these frequencies (namely Tone Bin and Phase) of both 7 tone and 31 tone created by the AP software, or do you have any influence on them?
They are sample files created by AP software. But I can play any wave file.
 

Guermantes

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Moved this post to the correct thread:

Thanks for the review, Amir.

I have one of these and have done some cursory tests with comparison to Topping D10 and D30 DACs. My conclusion was the Hifiberry is competent but the USB DACs were superior in the measurement results.

The Hifiberry's PCM5122 chip does have selectable reconstruction filters and these can be changed in the Alsamixer. The default is a reasonably gentle linear phase implementation as you identified but there is a steeper version ("high attenuation") that is also available. I believe some RPi audio player software installations, such as PicorePlayer, Moode and Volumio, expose these filters as settings in their DAC configuration pages.
 

xarkkon

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Moved this post to the correct thread:

Thanks for the review, Amir.

I have one of these and have done some cursory tests with comparison to Topping D10 and D30 DACs. My conclusion was the Hifiberry is competent but the USB DACs were superior in the measurement results.

The Hifiberry's PCM5122 chip does have selectable reconstruction filters and these can be changed in the Alsamixer. The default is a reasonably gentle linear phase implementation as you identified but there is a steeper version ("high attenuation") that is also available. I believe some RPi audio player software installations, such as PicorePlayer, Moode and Volumio, expose these filters as settings in their DAC configuration pages.
I'm considering upgrading from the Hifiberry to a Topping D30. Are the measurement result differences audible in your opinion? Thanks!
 

Biblob

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Sorry, I shouldn't be typing when it's past my bedtime! The Teufel Definion 3 (mine are black... and I still had it easy, as my wife sat down with me and helped me do the best approximation of AB(X) comparisons we could, turning the amps off and on, switching speakers and trying to adjust the volume as best as possible, to my previous setup - Monitor Audio Silver RS6 - and said yeah, the Teufel sound better, keep them!) are a nice set of affordable speakers that have coaxial mid+tweaters:

View attachment 31977

and as such have pretty decent off-axis response for the minimal price:

View attachment 31978

Decay is also pretty decent:

View attachment 31979

Decent enough to make it very reasonable to have REW take care of the bit under 500 Hz.

Very well paired with NC400.
They look alright! Where did you find these measurements?
 

CRKebschull

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They look alright! Where did you find these measurements?

Hi Arnandsway,

the measurements are from Hifi Test. The Report is still available online.

The nice thing about Teufel is that you can trial their speakers in-home for 60 days. Ofcourse you have to pay for them up front, but if you don't like them, you can send them back (at their expense) and get a full refund. So, I did indeed do an in-home comparison with my Monitor Audios and decided I liked the Definion 3 quite a lot. Typical of coaxial setups, the Definion 3 have a very wide listening field, which suits me well as my livingroom is also my office and I don't have just one specific listening position, something that the RS6 Silver were not really up to.
 
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