What would you donate for us to test speakers?

[Bob-23]

I also doubt if there'll be enough people who really care, as Wombat put it. And visit your local department store. At least to my observation, traditional hifi (amps + speakers) is shrinking and I guess it's goin' to be further shrinking - the youth is on headphones... and these departments expand.

 

[Krunok]

At least to may observation, traditional hifi (amps + speakers) is shrinking and I guess it's goin' to be further shrinking - the youth is on headphones... and these departments expand.

I agree. I believe Speaker market is moving toward portable wireless speakers and small wireless speakers at homes.

 

[Lt_George]

Genelec, Neumann and similar manufacturers

Different market? Recording and broadcast professionals have little patience or tolerance for the steaming piles of BS spewed by consumer hi-fi and electronics marketing.

 

[FrantzM]

My motivations are all over the map..

Like many here I love this Hi-Fi stuff ... For the longest time ( speaking for many, I think) I have spent a lot of money on the hobby based on B.S. spewed by an ecosystem I call the High Audio Industry. We have heard "vast" differences, moved speakers, treated our rooms, changed our gears and sometimes our cables , some went as far as their power cords .... for poor , unsatisfying results.
We have now an independent entity that want to try something else :Measures gears using Science. Independent and repeatable measurements to advance the cause. We can go for days discussing the underlying philosophy and all the pitfalls that may come with such. One thing remains clear, we need this, some kind of scientific evaluation for our gears. This is a step in the right direction and it cost us little to contribute.

P.S. I have no vested interest in this.

 

[FrantzM]

Different market? Recording and broadcast professionals have little patience or tolerance for the steaming piles of BS spewed by consumer hi-fi and electronics marketing.

Yet, their forums often reminds us of the subjectivist BS of Home Audiophiles ... They, too would profit from scientific measurements of their gears, speakers in particular.

 

[StevenEleven]

I agree with many things you said but not with this part. If the speaker doesn't get good measurements on the "rig" Amir is considering buying then DSP/Room EQ canot make it sound well. Although every speaker will benefit from Room EQ, being well engineered or not, there are things that DSP/Room EQ simply cannot correct.

I am not an engineer but that is how I try to get to good sound—speakers first, room and placement second, EQ and DSP third. It seems to me that speakers could have structural or crossover or resonance problems that EQ cannot fix, that speaker placement and room interactions could cause problems EQ or DSP cannot fix (particularly because of the differences between direct and indirect sound), and if you have those straight, you might be able to use EQ and DSP in ways that do more good than harm.

It seems evident to me that the weakest links in the audio chain are speakers and then room (or in the case of headphones, well, headphones). I understand the respect and passion for good engineering in other parts of the chain, even moreso when it comes to things like safety or ground loops. But if we are in the dark about speakers that’s a huge hole in the big picture.

My mains cost less than $300 per pair not because I would never spend more, but because I have read in more than one place that they measure very well, and they sound great to me in my room. I have no basis to make a judgment that spending more on something else would get me better sound.

 

[Juhazi]

Nothing about this effort is about high-end speakers. My goal is to sift through hundreds of budget and mid-priced speakers to see which ones are worth buying. ...
As to high-end people, some number of them will see the light one day. The rest will do what they will do and who cares. They are a tiny market compared to the one we are addressing.

That goal keeps my wallet closed. Waste of resources.

Let me explain.
- Typical buyers of budget speakers don't care about the sound that much or have total trust to sales brochures of EQ gadgets/software.
- Differences between budget 2-way speakers are small.
- Logistics with large and heavy hifi speakers is challenging, and only a portion of interesting speakers are available in USA.

This is why I voted for headphones testing, even if I personally have zero interest in them.

 

[Krunok]

I am not an engineer but that is how I try to get to good sound—speakers first, room and placement second, EQ and DSP third. It seems to me that speakers could have structural or crossover or resonance problems that EQ cannot fix, that speaker placement and room interactions could cause problems speakers cannot fix (particularly because of the differences between direct and indirect sound), and if you have those straight, you might be able to use EQ and DSP in ways that do more good than harm.

It seems evident to me that the weakest links in the audio chain are speakers and then room (or in the case of headphones, well, headphones). I understand the respect and passion for good engineering in other parts of the chain, even moreso when it comes to things like safety or ground loops. But if we are in the dark about speakers that’s a huge hole in the big picture.

Exactly.

P.S. DSP/EQ can fix some problems with passive XO, it can also fix some resonance issues within the speaker but it definitely cannot fix bad directivity pattern. Room treatment cannot fix that as well, so it would be good to know in advance which speaker suffers from that issue and measurements are the only way to find that.

 

[Krunok]

That goal keeps my wallet closed. Waste of resources.

You are interested only in high-end speakers?

 

[Lt_George]

Where are their forums at? I would be interested.

I can't vouch for any of these since I haven't looked at them for several years, but maybe you'll find something of interest or they may lead to other forums:

• https://old.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/
• http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php
• https://www.soundonsound.com/forum
• https://forums.creativecow.net/audioprofessionals

 

[Lt_George]

their forums often reminds us of the subjectivist BS of Home Audiophiles ...

Some are quite happy to do so face to face as well A meme from The Big Lebowski is also apt in some cases...

They, too would profit from scientific measurements of their gears, speakers in particular.

Maybe, but I don't think many other than the hobbyists on a budget will be persuaded to buy consumer gear instead of pro gear.

It would make an interesting comparsion to see some budget pro gear measured vs the consumer products under the same conditions.

 

[watchnerd]

What's the proposed test harness for the speakers?

Aside from the gear, what's the physical environment?

 

[Juhazi]

You are interested only in high-end speakers?

I added reasoning in my post. I am personally interested in exotic constructions, alternatives, that Amir seems to have minimal interest in. I am active at other forums for that.

 

[Nemo]

I’ll be happy to contribute with $100 for such a worthy cause

 

[watchnerd]

My goal is to sift through hundreds of budget and mid-priced speakers to see which ones are worth buying.

Isn't that what Z-Reviews and No Audiophile already do?

 

[Vintage57]

Isn't that what Z-Reviews and No Audiophile already do?

Agreed, the value market is saturated with budget products, and if one buys a $250 speaker they don’t like its probably saleable for 60% of msrp and they’re out $100.
Respectfully the focus should be on the speakers that cost as a much or more than a small used car and determining where the value/performance equation is optimized. When you make a bad choice here it’s a potential loss of thousands

 

[ob1]

I'd happily contribute 100$ and/or a small monthly amount, say 10$/month.

 

[Krunok]

I added reasoning in my post. I am interested in exotic constructions, alternatives, that Amir seems to have minimal interest in.

You are probably aware that not many people share your interest.

 

[Krunok]

Agreed, the value market is saturated with budget products, and if one buys a $250 speaker they don’t like its probably saleable for 60% of msrp and they’re out $100.
Respectfully the focus should be on the speakers that cost as a much or more than a small used car and determining where the value/performance equation is optimized. When you make a bad choice here it’s a potential loss of thousands

I agree. But, on the other hand, my guess is that not many folks would be interested in speakers that cost more than $5000 as they cannot afford it.

 

[watchnerd]

Agreed, the value market is saturated with budget products, and if one buys a $250 speaker they don’t like its probably saleable for 60% of msrp and they’re out $100.
Respectfully the focus should be on the speakers that cost as a much or more than a small used car and determining where the value/performance equation is optimized. When you make a bad choice here it’s a potential loss of thousands

http://noaudiophile.com/reviews.php

It might be good for site traffic, but I'm not personally very interested in reading yet more reviews of speakers in the $200ish price point. To your point, the market is saturated and the opportunity cost is low if people make a bad purchase.

I would be interested in reading about powered pro monitors of midfield size/cost in a living room / home setting.