4 new Schiit preamps

[Matias]

Schiit discontinued the original Saga and Freya and released 2 new versions of each preamp, with suffix S (solid state) or + (tubes). Also they published APx555 measurement reports on their website too.

Example Freia S ($599): measurements PDF https://www.schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/Schiit Preamp APx555 Standard Test Suite_ Freya S.pdf

For others check their website under Specs tab.
https://www.schiit.com/products/

Freia S - gain 4 (+12dB)

Freia S - gain 1 (0dB)

Freia S - passive

 

[GrimSurfer]

LOL.

It's funny to have the option of buying solid state or tube versions of the same model preamp. You'd think that the manufacturer would simply sell the one whose performance vs cost vs profit model was the best.

I'm not belittling vacuum tubes. I suppose there might be some applications where they work really well (such as in EMP hardened circuitry), but the proof is in the measurement... and not just when brand new but after a few hundred hours operating time.

Unless the measurements indicated otherwise, this sounds like more hipster marketing. Perhaps it will spread to the point where a dealer will ask if I'd like square wheels and tires with my next new car.

Nothing would surprise me at this point...

 

[elira]

You'd think that the manufacturer would simply sell the one whose performance vs cost vs profit model was the best.

They also need to consider what the consumer wants. For what I read about this they are doing an “experiment” to see which one sells better, so they provide a bunch of options, people decide what to buy, and after the first batch they will decide which ones make more sense to keep.

 

[amirm]

There is an old saying in engineering: "if you measure it, it will get better." Looks like they are doing that and with it, designing much better gear. Those measurements are excellent. Hopefully someone will buy and send them to me for verification.

 

[Matias]

I wish they would also measure and publish their other products with the APx555, specially their new power amplifiers.

 

[garbulky]

LOL.

It's funny to have the option of buying solid state or tube versions of the same model preamp. You'd think that the manufacturer would simply sell the one whose performance vs cost vs profit model was the best.

I'm not belittling vacuum tubes. I suppose there might be some applications where they work really well (such as in EMP hardened circuitry), but the proof is in the measurement... and not just when brand new but after a few hundred hours operating time.

Unless the measurements indicated otherwise, this sounds like more hipster marketing. Perhaps it will spread to the point where a dealer will ask if I'd like square wheels and tires with my next new car.

Nothing would surprise me at this point...

I don't see much focus from tube manufacturers on producing cutting edge measurements. I doubt they are concerned about that. I think the point of tubes is ...well to get the tooobey sound.

 

[amirm]

I don't see much focus from tube manufacturers on producing cutting edge measurements. I doubt they are concerned about that. I think the point of tubes is ...well to get the tooobey sound.

Tuby sound need not and should not include audibly bad distortion, noise and drift due to poor engineering.

 

[garbulky]

Tuby sound need not and should not include audibly bad distortion, noise and drift due to poor engineering.

You're right. It need not. But for most people who talk about tubes, they are pursuing a flavor whether it be purposefully bloomy, "holographic", woole fuzzy sound, vintage sounding, little bit of treble gloss on vocals etc. I see tube people as a what flavor ice cream do you want? Chocolate, caramel, coconut.
While the solid state crowd is more like - how perfectly ice cream is this ice cream? Is there anything not pure ice cream about it?
And I think the tube manufacturers know that and don't really care about the measurements - as you've probably noticed by your tube measurements.

 

[Matias]

Good tube amps should have a low noise floor and no PS hum. Then the added harmonics are the icing on the cake to flavor the system to taste.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I wonder looking at the casework if they have their grounding issues for the case under control now?

 

[amirm]

Another reason to get one and check it out....

 

[GrimSurfer]

There is an old saying in engineering: "if you measure it, it will get better." Looks like they are doing that and with it, designing much better gear. Those measurements are excellent. Hopefully someone will buy and send them to me for verification.

I'd love to see how their measurements compare with those gathered by independent reviewers. It would also be nice to compare independent measurement of both "S" and "+" versions to understand if the latter offers anything "real" to the game.

 

[Matias]

Freya+ tube (gain 4, +12 dB) adds 2nd and 3rd harmonics, and some PS hum and its 2nd harmonic at 120Hz too.
Interesting to see that it adds less harmonics than the solid state Freya S at gain 4.

 

[GrimSurfer]

They also need to consider what the consumer wants. For what I read about this they are doing an “experiment” to see which one sells better, so they provide a bunch of options, people decide what to buy, and after the first batch they will decide which ones make more sense to keep.

I'm not so sure that the consumer knows what they want, largely because so few consumers take the time to become better informed and more critical in their thinking.

I do know that manufacturers expend a great deal of effort to influence consumer perceptions, regardless of whether these are demonstrably or measurably better or not.

This makes it difficult to track the origin of the "wants" driving production.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Good tube amps should have a low noise floor and no PS hum. Then the added harmonics are the icing on the cake to flavor the system to taste.

Based on your last post (many thanks for that), the Freya + has more PS hum and a PS hum harmonic. The second and third (!) order harmonics are higher too.

Interesting? Certainly. Tasty icing? in view of the what has been posted on this site about other Shiit products, I'd really need to see more...

 

[Snafu]

I had "old" Freya, that 128-Step relay-switched stepped attenuator is pretty cool.

clickclickclickclickclick

 

[invaderzim]

Based on your last post (many thanks for that), the Freya + has more PS hum and a PS hum harmonic. The second and third (!) order harmonics are higher too.

I always forget where the cutoff is; do the PS hum and 3rd harmonics shown reach into the audible level?

To be honest I'm impressed. It seems like Schiit is stepping up and saying "Here are the exact specs for the different versions; feel free to make your own, informed choice."

Sure, every company could offer just one option at any given price point that tests the best but that would be boring and we'd only be making our choice based on who had the neatest looking faceplate. There is always the risk that someone is going to spend more money for the component that I don't like but as I've said before as long as they don't try to convince everyone else to spend their money on magic beads to improve the sound then more power to them.

 

[SIY]

I always forget where the cutoff is; do the PS hum and 3rd harmonics shown reach into the audible level?

Depends on gain structure and loudspeaker efficiency, but in most cases, no.

These are excellent measurements.

 

[TimW]

I wonder looking at the casework if they have their grounding issues for the case under control now?

What I find interesting is the lack of screws in the top of these preamps like their older products have. I wonder how they are securing that brushed aluminum panel and whether this bodes well for grounding.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I think the point of tubes is ...well to get the tooobey sound.

...or at least the promise of it...