How loud do you listen to your headphones?

[soundwave76]

People listen to loudspeakers at higher volume than with headphones.
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19252

Interesting. The Genelec GLM system I am using with my nearfield 8331+7350 active speakers provides constant volume measurement option with the included measurement microphone. I think I will hook it up and start to monitor the volume levels...

 

[dc655321]

Just to clarify @dc655321, wouldn't that volume setting correspond to 0.26-0.45V RMS for a 0dBfs sinewave? And would that not mean that most music signals would need significantly less output than that to get to your preferred listening levels? Perhaps I've misunderstood what you've done here.

I think your understanding is fine: these measurements do represent the "worst case" (highest/loudest) signal my headphones would receive for a given dac/amp volume setting.

I just didn't do a good job explicitly interpreting the consequences here

Example 1: if the song I'm listening to has an RMS level of -10dB (peaks at 0dB, though), and my headphones produce 100dB at a given dac/amp output, then the average intensity hitting my ears is 90dB.

Example 2: for HD-6xx sensitivity of 103 dB/V, listening to a track of -10dB RMS, the volume of the dac/amp set to 0.45Vrms, would result in an average volume of 103dB + 20log(0.45) - 10dB = (103 - 7 - 10)dB = 86dB.

Unless I'm out to lunch here... could be... first cup of coffee has not yet taken effect

 

[dc655321]

if it knows what kind of headphones you’re using, could easily calculate that from the level of the music and the sensitivity of the cans.

You'd need to know the sensitivity of the cans, the voltage of your source for a given volume-knob position, and the characteristics of the signal you're putting through the source (i.e. its average and peak levels).

See example calculations in my recent post.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I think your understanding is fine: these measurements do represent the "worst case" (highest/loudest) signal my headphones would receive for a given dac/amp volume setting.

I just didn't do a good job explicitly interpreting the consequences here

Example 1: if the song I'm listening to has an RMS level of -10dB (peaks at 0dB, though), and my headphones produce 100dB at a given dac/amp output, then the average intensity hitting my ears is 90dB.

Example 2: for HD-6xx sensitivity of 103 dB/V, listening to a track of -10dB RMS, the volume of the dac/amp set to 0.45Vrms, would result in an average volume of 103dB + 20log(0.45) - 10dB = (103 - 7 - 10)dB = 86dB.

Unless I'm out to lunch here... could be... first cup of coffee has not yet taken effect

Those calculations seem to stack up to me

Shouldn't be too any 0dBfs peaks on nicely-mastered recorded music but they are ubiquitous in a lot of pop, rock and elecronic music for sure.

What genres of music are these settings optimal for?

 

[dkinric]

This is an interesting point, it came up for me in the Topping DX3PRO thread when my volume setting seemed to be much higher than some others. Using DX3PRO with HD6XX, I was frequently going to near the top of the range (-6 to -4) on high gain. Don't know if upstream signal chain is affecting this? I listen via iphone - Apple CCC - USB in, phone volume at 100%.

Amir, I know you have the same setup, do you ever go this loud?

I also take breaks to allow my hearing to "reset" to lower levels.

Interestingly, since I have upgraded my home speaker system, I can enjoy it at lower volume levels. I attribute it to being able to feel the "impact" of the music at a lower volume because the new sub and speakers can present the entire frequency range accurately at more moderate volume levels, so it's still satisfying.
Of course, it sounds fantastic cranked up as well

 

[wiggum]

Buy or borrow an RMS multimeter and measure the voltage output by playing some tone (200 Hz or 1kHz). You will have to adjust the frequency since not all multimeters are able to measure it properly. From that, it is easy to calculate SPL from the sensitivity of the headphone.

 

[dc655321]

Shouldn't be too any 0dBfs peaks on nicely-mastered recorded music but they are ubiquitous in a lot of pop, rock and elecronic music for sure.

You say that, but... most of the music I listen to peaks out at 0dB or just under (-0.01dB!).

What genres of music are these settings optimal for?

I couldn't say.

This experiment was based on being curious about how consistent (or not) I am with respect to volume settings on different devices and with different headphones. My results suggest I'm fairly consistent with respect to level (80-90dB), but that I could also stand to turn things down ~6dB in the interest of health.

 

[andreasmaaan]

You say that, but... most of the music I listen to peaks out at 0dB or just under (-0.01dB!).

I couldn't say.

This experiment was based on being curious about how consistent (or not) I am with respect to volume settings on different devices and with different headphones. My results suggest I'm fairly consistent with respect to level (80-90dB), but that I could also stand to turn things down ~6dB in the interest of health.

Haha fair enough Blame the loudness wars. But that answers the question, i.e. these are the volume settings that work for music with 0dBfs peaks.

 

[MRC01]

Some of the papers linked here show opposite results: some find people listen louder on headphones, some louder on speakers. My own experience is that it's easier to get headphones too loud, than speakers. On headphones I set the levels so they feel subjectively quieter than the loudspeakers (whether or not they actually are).

Several years ago some of my musician friends developed hearing issues which put the fear of loudness into me. But my first introduction to the concept was back in the 1980s when I took the physical for the Naval Academy. I was paired with another candidate. On the hearing test they played some high frequency tones. After the test the doc looked at our results and asked the other guy, "Do you go to a lot of rock concerts?" He said yes. The doc shook his head and scrawled some notes on the application.

It's harder to measure the real SPL of headphones. Here's one relatively cheap way to do it: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-23-big-step-forward
I would take its frequency & distortion measurements with a grain of salt, but I can't think of any reason its SPL measurement of wide bandwidth white noise would be inaccurate.

On speakers, I find acoustic music (chamber music, solo piano, small jazz ensembles, etc.) high quality recordings usually measure DR15 or higher, quiet parts are 30-40 dB quieter than peaks, and peaks happen only for a few seconds every few minutes. My SPL meter says I tend to listen with the loudest dynamic peaks around 85-90 dB which puts the quiet to average levels in the high 50s to mid 70s.

Overall I found a simple rule: listen at a level that is just a touch quieter than would be fully satisfying, so I want just a bit more volume. This seems safer for the ears, and also promotes critical listening. I find it makes me open my ears and mind to the music to take it in fully.

 

[blank001]

I use foobar2000 for what I think gives me an estimate. I play a track, adjust it to the volume I like, then move the dB slider down until I can't hear the track. I think 50-65 is common for me. I can't do 75 at all.

 

[lewis]

I find some headphones need more volume to sound good. I had Sennheiser HD600 but didn't like them as they sounded flat and dull unless I played them loud. when I changed to HD800 I get all the detail and life at much lower volume.

 

[MRC01]

Some of this is due to differences in frequency response. The HD800 response rises in the treble from roughly 4 to 9 kHz with a resonance around 6 kHz. This enhances the sense of detail. The resonance is something in the neighborhood of +6 dB @ 6 kHz, Q=2.