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Michael Fremer Leaving Stereophile?

ahofer

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IMO, his reviewing isn’t slimy, but his backhanding of science is.

I linked to this before, but please have a look at the first few comments here and try to make sense of them. ALL HE DID was to change the cables (which created 3db level changes). But he also “normalized levels”.


1670372882284.png


1670372911646.png

And as charming as ever:

1670373038220.png


And one of my favs chimes in:
1670373284952.png
 
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Newman

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noiseangel

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This whole industry is being taken over by crooks and witch doctors and people who will sell their soul to highest bidder.

What an absolute disgrace of a human. Denneys dots. Are you kidding me? How much did he get paid to plug that rubbish.
Fremer and Denneys Dots.jpg
 

board

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IMO, his reviewing isn’t slimy, but his backhanding of science is.

I linked to this before, but please have a look at the first few comments here and try to make sense of them. ALL HE DID was to change the cables (which created 3db level changes). But he also “normalized levels”.


View attachment 248304

View attachment 248305
And as charming as ever:

View attachment 248306

And one of my favs chimes in:
View attachment 248307
Yes. In other occassions he has called HatsDomino (the first poster you quoted) an Arrogant Planet troll, which explains "I just noticed the name". And one thing I also noticed in that discussion was that Fremer, as usual, never apologized to anyone for all the bile he spewed, even though he was clearly the one who was mistaken.
I also participated in that discussion, where I wrote:

My comment is not meant as criticism, but just as an observation:
First, it's not only one file, but two files that have the channels swapped: In file 1 and 2 the cymbal in the very beginning is on the left, and the guitar straight afterwards is on the right, and in file 3 and 4 it's reversed.
I know this will sound a bit harsh, but if you're making a post about the readibly audible differences in cables, then I think you should at least be able to attach the cables correctly. Spending two minutes listening to the recorded files before posting them would easily solve this. Again, not to sound harsh, but it makes you seem very sloppy, rushed and careless when you're trying to present yourself as thorough and attentive to the even most minute details - meaning if you claim that cables make an audible difference but you connect them wrong, people will get the impression that either you're not as trained and attentive a listener as you claim, or that the differences you hear are simply the swapped channels, which will open you up to ridicule.
Again, this is not meant as criticism, but just observations and suggestions on how to make a better test that will satisfy even the harshest critics.
As for volume level, it's true that the files are not matched. First of all, when matching volume levels it should be RMS values, not peak levels that are matched. It should, however, be noted that in some cases volume levels need to matched by ear. This is especially the case if there's a noted difference in frequency response/EQ, especially if this difference is in the harshness region where our ears are the most sensitive.
Anyway, the volume level on these files don't match. Again, not criticism, just an observation.
Here are the numbers (note both the differences in peak values but also in RMS values):
foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2020-05-10 09:45:32
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: ? / ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 0.00 dB -13.96 dB 1:06 ?-052020Comeaway1
DR12 -4.20 dB -19.64 dB 1:04 ?-052020ComeAway2
DR12 -0.10 dB -16.87 dB 1:02 ?-052020Comeaway3
DR10 -0.10 dB -17.86 dB 1:10 ?-052020ComeAway4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 4
Official DR value: DR11
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 4608 kbps
Codec: PCM
================================================================================
All the files were slightly different lengths, but especially File 4 was quite a lot longer, so I converted the files to wave to edit them to the same length, and when I then did the same reading of those edited wave files, this is the reading I got (again, note both peak and RMS differences):
foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2020-05-10 10:29:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: ? / ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 0.00 dB -13.83 dB 1:02 ?-052020Comeaway1
DR12 -4.20 dB -19.45 dB 1:02 ?-052020ComeAway2
DR12 -0.10 dB -16.87 dB 1:02 ?-052020Comeaway3
DR12 -3.18 dB -18.78 dB 1:02 ?-052020ComeAway4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 4
Official DR value: DR12
Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 4608 kbps
Codec: PCM
================================================================================
In file 4 there was a loud peak in the section that was only included at the end of this particular file, which explains the big difference in peak value between the reading of the aiff file 4 and the wave file 4.
As for cables making an audible difference, the difference cables can make are changes in frequency response and volume.
If all you did was change the cables, then volume levels could have occurred, but since it seemed like you tried to match the peak levels, this explanation goes out the window.
As for frequency response, I used Voxengo's CurveEQ to compare the files, and there are very light frequency response differences between the four. It's impossible for me to say if anybody could actually hear those differences, but except for file 3 they are all between 0.1 to 0.3 dB, so it's unlikely that this would be audible. But we could of course match the volume levels, swap the channels on two of the files and then do a blind test and see if anybody would pass, and that would be proof that there's an audible difference. I would be happy to help set this test up, and I would also be happy to participate.
I should, however, say that file 3 did seem to differ by 0.5 dB between around 2 and 12 kHz, so that particular file would be most likely to have an audible difference in a level-matched and channel-matched test.
Then I would also guess that file 3 is either the $5700 cable or the $15 cable. Since file 3 is the only cheap cable and the one that differs the most, I would imagine that file 3 is the $15 cable.
Just for the record: I find that it's perfectly okay to pay for a change in frequency response if you like the effect, as that's also partly what we're paying for when we change amplifiers, phono cartridges, etc., but I would find paying for a volume level difference to be unnecessary.

It's still strange that after being told repeatedly by both me and others that he should normalize files by the RMS, not by peak level, he still doesn't do it. It's so simple.
 
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board

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This whole industry is being taken over by crooks and witch doctors and people who will sell their soul to highest bidder.

What an absolute disgrace of a human. Denneys dots. Are you kidding me? How much did he get paid to plug that rubbish.
View attachment 248313
I actually think he really, truly believes that those dots make a difference, just like he believes in other fraudulent things.
 

BlackTalon

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I also proposed a test to Fremer and could never get a proper response to a simple yes/no question - just like with a dramatic woman.
Honestly, that's an insult to dramatic women. MF takes it to another level. In one breath he is all nice and syrupy sweet, and the next he spews bile and contempt at anyone who does not bow down to his claims. I guess it may be amusing and entertaining for some readers, but I stopped reading his column several years ago.

And do I really need a $95k phono preamp to make my $15k cartridge, $30k arm and $110k turntable be remotely listenable? How good is that equipment if it doesn't sound its best through a measly $5k phono preamp? I just feel like he lost touch with reality a long time ago. For a while he was a breath of fresh air, but that was a couple/ few decades ago.
 

Mr. Widget

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I just feel like he lost touch with reality a long time ago. For a while he was a breath of fresh air, but that was a couple/ few decades ago.
I think you nailed it.

Just like in politics, there are these echo chambers that many are sucked into and folks lose their way. In politics, folks seem to lose their sense of morality and decency and in this audiophile world, they lose perspective about what really matters. Hello, it's about enjoying music... if you can't do that with lesser gear, the problem is not with the equipment.
 

board

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Honestly, that's an insult to dramatic women. MF takes it to another level. In one breath he is all nice and syrupy sweet, and the next he spews bile and contempt at anyone who does not bow down to his claims.
Actually, I have too much experience with dramatic women, and some are insufferable constantly (it's usually the really fat, ugly and loud ones), but most dramatic women I've met have actually been exactly like you describe MF, which is also why I could write that long comparison between him and dramatic women, which I offered to post earlier in this thread.
 

board

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Fraud exists, but I think ignorance and the desire to experience magic are far more common in the realm of the audiophile.
Completely agreed. Many on the objectivists side are talking about fraud, but I think they fail to understand how irrational (and willingly gullible) many people really are, and IMO that explains much more why the hi-fi world is the way it is (as opposed to be explained by fraud).
 

DavidEdwinAston

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Actually, I have too much experience with dramatic women, and some are insufferable constantly (it's usually the really fat, ugly and loud ones), but most dramatic women I've met have actually been exactly like you describe MF, which is also why I could write that long comparison between him and dramatic women, which I offered to post earlier in this thread.
I would think your comments on "dramatic women" are unacceptable in this day and age.
Did you mean "dramatic people"?
 

Newman

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I would think your comments on "dramatic women" are unacceptable in this day and age.
Quite unacceptable. Deeply misogynistic. I know many men of similar character.
 
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ahofer

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I don't know about "unacceptable", but, in the tradition of ASR, if you are going to assert a significant, sex or gender-based behavioral tendency towards drama, you should provide some evidence. Otherwise..that's just your subjective, uncontrolled opinion. What validity do we ascribe to that sort of thing?

I'm in favor of defining "unacceptable" speech narrowly.
 

ahofer

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It's still strange that after being told repeatedly by both me and others that he should normalize files by the RMS, not by peak level, he still doesn't do it. It's so simple.
Between this 'test' and his refusal to participate in any other blind tests, the answer is Res Ipsa Loquitur
 

piotrkundu

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It's sad that this hobby resorts to public name calling. Having degrees and being a college professor doesn't triumph a real job outside of academia. Most people have in theories fail in practice.

Peter believes that digital gives higher resolution, which it probably does or in theory should do. Mikey says it adds distortion and sound worse than analog/vinyl. Maybe it does add distortion as overtones into audible spectrum or it adds more detail and that detail could be noise or something audible that he and some producers don't like it. Or the added detail doesn't mask something that the analog/vinyl process masks/hides/removes. Who knows?

Maybe it's not even measurable or in 1/10th of dB and inaudible to most people. What if they are both wrong? Or both right?
 
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