DIY audio, where to get started?

[fpitas]

When I wanted to build monster DIY speakers I found a new friend who had a wood shop with a very squared up table saw and lots of router skills We became best friends. First we built my speakers. Then I helped him design his.

A friend (the lawyer mentioned above) asked me to design speakers for him. I was a bit embarassed because I knew very little actual engineering on the subject. But we both learned, and I built a sonic lab in my music room so I could keep studying.

 

[Juhazi]

This is post #63, but first one that gives answers! (Thank you Google!)

Hi,

To start with I'm in the UK so would prefer any places to buy from being local, what u really want to know would be the best place to start?

Is there kits available that can be put together for instance? My woodworking skills are non existent and I don't have a workspace for anything beyond soldering.

I would prefer inexpensive options to start of possible so I can see how I'd do.

TIA

Speaker Kits

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[MRC01]

No Jedi's training is complete until he constructs his own light-saber. Audiophiles can benefit from this advice too. It doesn't mean you build SOTA gear better than anything you can buy, or less expensive. It means you learn more about this fascinating hobby at the intersection between engineering and art.

 

[fpitas]

No Jedi's training is complete until he constructs his own light-saber. Audiophiles can benefit from this advice too. It doesn't mean you build SOTA gear better than anything you can buy, or less expensive. It means you learn more about this fascinating hobby at the intersection between engineering and art.

It gave me a big appreciation for good speaker designers.

 

[617]

It gave me a big appreciation for good speaker designers.

Yeah I think I started because I wanted nice speakers but couldn't afford them. I ended up with a four way system powered by a bunch of weird amps and two minidsp units. All told I probably could have bought something pretty good for the time and money I put into that system.

There are certain things where DIY offers good value. Putting together a hypex or icePower amp, for one. Maybe making a nice turntable plinth.

If you have the tools, a good speaker kit is a good option. If you want to build something very large (like the Statements speaker) or something very special (horns or dipoles) diy makes sense.

I learned a ton about speaker design, which has made me a more educated customer, but a lot of the instincts you develop from DIY don't translate to the commercial world. For example, the woofers and tweeters used in Kali/JBL/Adam monitors are pretty unimpressive from a DIY perspective - I'm used to heavy, expensive looking drivers with carbon pulp and big magnets and neo motors and so on. But none of that stuff matters as much as performance, and these DSP speakers are extremely good.

I wish Kali would make an IN-8 with a front panel machined out of something solid and a cabinet made out of plywood with a nice veneer. Speaker would cost twice as much but I really can't get over how cheap looking these monitors are. Genelec and Neuman are exceptions.

 

[Wolf]

An example;
I'm building a sub for a paying customer. They were pricing out SVS subwoofers, and were a little disgusted at the cost. I found a driver, a knock down box, a plate amp, and even with factoring in my cut for labor and design; The final object will be about -$300 from the commercial SVS equivalent, and actually perform the same if not better than it as well.

So, I agree about having the know-how and having done the homework already- then the cost savings are applied easier. If my customer were to have gone at it solo, the margin of learning would supersede the cost savings.

 

[Tangband]

An example;
I'm building a sub for a paying customer. They were pricing out SVS subwoofers, and were a little disgusted at the cost. I found a driver, a knock down box, a plate amp, and even with factoring in my cut for labor and design; The final object will be about -$300 from the commercial SVS equivalent, and actually perform the same if not better than it as well.

So, I agree about having the know-how and having done the homework already- then the cost savings are applied easier. If my customer were to have gone at it solo, the margin of learning would supersede the cost savings.

The secondhand market will still pay almost nothing for your DIY subwoofer, nomatter how good it is.

 

[Tangband]

Chuck,

What kind of projects are you thinking about? Do you know any electronics?

TI has all kinds of chips that make it fairly easy to make a preamp, headphone amp, or low-to-medium power amplifier. But a lot of "modern" chips are surface mount with close-pitch pins make it difficult for hobbyists. ...You can still get a pretty-good selection of chips in DIP packages.

Speakers are the easiest thing to build. You don't necessarily have to do "furniture quality" woodwork or finishing. I cover most of my speakers with leather-look vinyl (like most guitar amps, except I usually use brown whereas most guitar amps are wrapped in black vinyl).

One time I built particle board speakers and then used a woodgrain kit to make it look like walnut.

Up to a point you can build a speaker more economically than you can buy one. When you get into high-end speakers you probably can't match what you can buy.

You do need some space for woodworking and it helps if you have a guide for your saw so you can make straight cuts. It's also helpful to have a jigsaw or router with a circle-cutting jig.

Or, some people use all kinds of things to easily make a speaker "cabinet"... A bucket, or barrel, or a pipe, or almost anything to control/contain the soundwaves from the back of the speaker.

You can find some good speaker kits but I don't know of any "good" (and complete) electronics kits. I remember seeing Heathkit amplifiers and they looked and functioned as good as anything you could buy but they have been out of business for a long time.

It seems like lot of people are building music streamers around the Raspberry Pi.


...I don't build anything electronic anymore unless it's something I can't buy. Most electronics is made on automated assembly lines with cheap labor, and very little labor. Any special-custom parts (like the case/cabinet and front panel) are also manufactured in quantities that allow better than DIY quality/appearance at lower than DIY cost.

And there are things you simply can't build yourself... You can build your own smart phone and I think you need a license before you can buy Dolby or DTS decoder chips or anything related to (copy protected) HDMI.

Dont agree that speakers are the easiest to build. Not if the level of know-how should be on par with Andrew Jones, Kevin Voecks, Illka Rissanen and Phil Budd.
Those are the ones you compete against if your budget is 500 dollar and above.
You have to know psychoacoustics as well as crossover topologies and designs.

Making a closed box subwoofer with LT is probably the easiest to build for a DIY:er. You still compete with the cheapest SVS subs for 500 bucks , and those SVS are not wortheless secondhand after three years.

 

[Tangband]

Chuck1993: Iˋm gonna fool my self by building the Lxmini next summer - it probably gonna take time and I loose money in the process, but it will be fun

 

[fpitas]

Dont agree that speakers are the easiest to build. Not if the level of know-how should be on par with Andrew Jones, Kevin Voecks, Illka Rissanen and Phil Budd.
Those are the ones you compete against if your budget is 500 dollar and above.
You have to know psychoacoustics as well as crossover topologies and designs.

Making a closed box subwoofer with LT is probably the easiest to build for a DIY:er. You still compete with the cheapest SVS subs for 500 bucks , and those SVS are not wortheless secondhand after three years.

Some noted speaker designers got their start with DIY. Whereas some people are more apt or talented, we all need to start somewhere. I doubt you'll find useful classes in speaker design at a school.

 

[hex168]

The secondhand market will still pay almost nothing for your DIY subwoofer, nomatter how good it is.

True, but one does not sell subwoofers, one buys MORE.

 

[mhardy6647]

True, but one does not sell subwoofers, one buys MORE.

I sold one once (and I don't sell much). It was a cheap-ish one, and it served me well enough... but an opportunity presented itself, and I upgraded a wee bit.

 

[MRC01]

The secondhand market will still pay almost nothing for your DIY subwoofer, nomatter how good it is.

That's usually true of DIY equipment. Yet there are exceptions. The passive attenuator that I built is one example. I used top quality parts (Goldpoint attenuator switches, heavy brushed aluminum knobs, etc.) and after 15 years of daily use it was still like new cosmetically & functionally. When I made system changes that obviated the need for it, I sold it for about what it cost me to build it.

 

[Wolf]

Yeah, not entirely true. In my case, my name attached can bring the price north of nil even if not what it's actually worth or what it cost me. In the grand scheme of things, if I design a project I do listen to it for awhile. Then it is seen as used rather than brand new, and should likely not fetch full price.

However, there are people that pay for custom work or projects I build, and they like that they are custom made, sound great, and look great. Of course, the buyer either knows I know my stuff by talking with me, has heard of me, or has heard something I designed prior.

Just because something is hand made does not make it trash, nor does not having a brand name. There are many companies that were started as DIY.
Fritz
Salk
Philharmonic
Joseph Audio
Tyler
Klipsch
Wilson
KLH
Clearwave
Selahaudio (RIP)

and many more...

 

[kemmler3D]

Yeah, not entirely true. In my case, my name attached can bring the price north of nil...

Yes, but for those of us without "a name" in the biz... our creations will get yard sale prices if they get anything. Selling anything other than old B&W around here is not so easy (practically had to give away some Boston Acoustic towers recently) so I think the point about resale value is valid.

If I build speakers, I expect my best resale value will be had taking them apart and selling the parts on DIYAudio.com or something. It doesn't matter how they sound or measure, the brand name is a strong determinant of resale value.

 

[Wolf]

You also have to remember that looking good matters. Performance aside, the aesthetics matter a lot. If it does not look good, parting out is likely the endgame. I've been there a few times.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that because I'm who I am makes my projects more likely to sell, even though that might very well be the case. I've just had a lot of practice, and not everyone knows (of) me.

The buyer has to be savvy enough to know they are getting a quality built product, that performs well for a comparable to commercial valued price.

I restate simply, DIY is not junk. Look at all the contracted professionals who work on homes and or build things, creating the custom product for the end user. This is no different, and buyers do pay for quality custom work if they are not simply cheapskates.

 

[kemmler3D]

You also have to remember that looking good matters. Performance aside, the aesthetics matter a lot. If it does not look good, parting out is likely the endgame. I've been there a few times.

I wasn't trying to insinuate that because I'm who I am makes my projects more likely to sell, even though that might very well be the case. I've just had a lot of practice, and not everyone knows (of) me.

The buyer has to be savvy enough to know they are getting a quality built product, that performs well for a comparable to commercial valued price.

I restate simply, DIY is not junk. Look at all the contracted professionals who work on homes and or build things, creating the custom product for the end user. This is no different, and buyers do pay for quality custom work if they are not simply cheapskates.

Good point. I'm pretty sure the user/admin Planet 10 at DIYAudio makes a living doing custom audio builds.

Even if your stuff looks good though, reputation matters. If I make a speaker that looks as good and sounds better than a given B&W model, I am simply not going to find as many willing buyers for the custom job, if only because people are not searching for "used custom built speaker" on Craigslist...

 

[Wolf]

Let's face it that Craigslist is not where you should be selling said project if you intend to make any money back. Audiogon, US Audio Mart, etc, may be more apt to sell such a result.

 

[ldarieut]

DIY will be rewarding, if you like to build things by yourself.
If you want to optimize financially, you have to go for the high end build or things which are not readily available on the market i.e:
- fully active 4 ways with DSP,
- 3 way speakers with 15 or 18 inches woofers and horn loaded compression driver (think PA stuff, but hifi).
- line arrays...etc
If you just aim for a KEF R3 clone, you will be better buying the real thing, from a financial perspective.

 

[JeffS7444]

To start with I'm in the UK so would prefer any places to buy from being local, what u really want to know would be the best place to start?

Is there kits available that can be put together for instance? My woodworking skills are non existent and I don't have a workspace for anything beyond soldering.

I would prefer inexpensive options to start of possible so I can see how I'd do.

The majority of DIY offerings tend to be passive box-type speakers and valve electronics. Why valves? They are generally very DIY-friendly and more forgiving of beginner mistakes. Whereas the modern, surface-mounted electronics which make up the bulk of ASR-recommended products were designed with automated assembly in mind.

When you do encounter DIY products built around surface mounted electronics, the electronics will usually be pre-assembled for this reason. Here's one such example which looks like a lot of fun:

https://celia-perah.com/products/r1-self-build-high-quality-bluetooth-radio-mono

As for valve amplification, Elekit offers the sort of DIY product which will spoil you: Complete kits with clear, well-illustrated assembly instructions and cleverly designed devices which look like a pro produced them.

https://www.elekit.co.jp/en/product/TU-8100

Speaker kits can sometimes be had with pre-assembled cabinets, or "flat-packs" of precut wood.

Tecsun's recreation of the classic 2P3 AM MW radio may not be hifi, but it's an excellent complete kit to whet your appetite, but with more powerful, less-distorted sound than typical vintage portable, thanks to modern amplifier IC.
https://kaito.us/products/tecsun-2p3-am-radio-receiver-kit-diy-for-enthusiasts

In terms of cost, you won't realize much savings versus buying readymade products, but the satisfaction of a DIY job done really well should not be underestimated!

I haven't listed UK-specific sources because I'm ignorant in that regard. But even in a marketplace the size of the USA's, DIY products often need to be shipped considerable distances.