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New Vinyl Quality

mash

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Since getting back into vinyl one of the more interesting things that I have noticed is the lack of manufacturing quality controls on new sealed vinyl. Without really tracking it, I'm noticing that about +5% of my new vinyls have some type of manufacturing defect. This can range from some strange cloudiness patches (noticeable in the run out area), to sleeve scuff marks, to marks/scratches/blotches in the body of the recording. It also doesn't seem to matter who the label/manufacturer is (e.g. I've seen defects with run-of-the-mill releases and high-end audiophile pressings). Generally, the issues make little-to-no audible impact but its massively irritating to lay out $20-60 for a new record only to find manufacturing defects.

This has led me to make several changes for how I buy new vinyl....

For local stores, I make sure to save my receipt (and have returned several records). To date, I've been checking my new vinyl at home but I'm starting to think its a better approach to open and inspect ALL of my new purchases before I leave the store. Online purchases are much harder. At this point, I'm limiting my purchases to a much smaller number of vendors that I trust and/or have had good results with.

Wondering what others are seeing and/or how you are handling the issue?
 

DVDdoug

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Interesting.... How's the sound quality (frequency response & distortion-clarity)? In the old days most records sounded "dull" (rolled-off highs) but there were exceptions so I know records were capable of better sound and they just didn't care.

I haven't bought a record in 30 or 40 years and I had assumed that quality was better than in the vinyl days, since most listeners are now used to digital quality. And, it seemed like records were getting better and more consistent by the time CDs were introduced.

But I think a lot of people buy records just to collect them, not to listen to them.

...I've only had to return CDs twice. Once I bought a 2-CD set and it came with two copies of the same disc. Another time the songs on the CD didn't exactly match what was listed and it had skips/defects (a various artist collection, probably from an "unknown" company.) I don't think I ever returned a record.
 
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mash

mash

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There is a lot of sound quality variability with Vinyl......which label, what master was used, who cut it, is it a 33 or 45 version, heavier vinyl....to name a few variables. There are sites that will compare multiple copies of a release (new and old) and recomend specific versions. Most of these types of comparisons that I have seen are very subjective with only a handful using an objective measurement based approach.

All that said, I certainly have some good sounding new vinyl and don't think its "inherently" worse than older recordings. I also have some older recording that are certainly better than their newer versions. For me, the biggest issue with modern vinyl is that there is such high demand (over current production capacity) that the labels are rushing to get things out on the market, which is going to inevitably create quality issues.
 

Mulder

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At the time when vinyl was at the top and CDs didn't exist yet, vinyl was highly variable in quality. There are vinyls from the glory days of vinyl that had the most miserable sound quality. My impression is that today's vinyl often sounds very good, which I think ironically has to do with the fact that all steps before pressing are usually digital.
 

Moonhead

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“For me, the biggest issue with modern vinyl is that there is such high demand (over current production capacity) that the labels are rushing to get things out on the market, which is going to inevitably create quality issues”

Fully Agree with this as the main problem with mass production, Its the same with musical instruments like guitars and basses and bicycles for that matter, I am real glad I stopped collecting as I no longer stress about it and just enjoy the music.
 

Mulder

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“For me, the biggest issue with modern vinyl is that there is such high demand (over current production capacity) that the labels are rushing to get things out on the market, which is going to inevitably create quality issues”

Fully Agree with this as the main problem with mass production, Its the same with musical instruments like guitars and basses and bicycles for that matter, I am real glad I stopped collecting as I no longer stress about it and just enjoy the music.
I would say the big makers of guitars had real issues in the seventies, but today you can get really good instruments for relatively small prices. I would also say the electronic gear normally is more reliable today than in the past. What has changed, mainly since tubes disappeared, is repairability. An old TV-set for example, broke down now and then due to tubes failing. The serviceman had to come to repair the TV.
 

Jim Shaw

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None of the record labels I know today are mastering or pressing their own vinyl products. They teleport the mix files off and get back packaged discs. Often, those labels don't even ship to consumers but rely on fulfillment houses to do their shipping. And the teens and tweens are eating it up. Running that old manufacturing equipment at maybe 120% of capacity.

What else could you expect? With new vinyl, you're riding the crest of a resurrected fad. There's gonna be some knockoffs in the record rack.
Probably a lot.
 

Moonhead

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Yeah Vintage Icon guitars are Nice, I have seen several bad Martin guitars, What im trying to say is that it doesnt seem Its worth the hassle buying top of the line Guitars, Monitors, Bicycles or even flat screen or kitchen hardware like it ones was.
- Sorry for the off topic, over and out.
 
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mash

mash

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One interesting side point is that "album packaging" (outer/inner sleeves, accessory content) is typically better these days. I think this has as much to do with the fact that half of the current vinyl market is older nostalgia collectors and they expect premium packaging if they are going to shell out +$30 for a collector's version package.

For the vinyl, I agree with the point about using older manufacturing equipment beyond capacity. The interesting question here is if this will change. There does seem to be activity expanding manufacturing capacity but that still seems to be based on utilizing older refurbed vinyl machines. The big question is if demand will keep growing (or even stay constant) to a level that would justify investment in new manufacturing capacity based on new machines.
 

Godataloss

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I think there has always been about 5% defect rate with record production. The cloudiness is a releasing agent. You need to clean records, yes even new ones.
Also don't call them vinyls. Just don't.
 

MCH

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The 80s, and even late 70s, at least in Europe, were the days of the cheap crappy repressings: gatefold covers that became single covers, artwork that was looking like made in the cheapest copy machine, credit titles pasted wherever on the back cover as a result of the missing gatefold. Inserts with artwork/lyrics that became blank inserts, vinyl thinner than paper, low quality cardboard. I think it wasn't that bad in US though.
New vinyl today is like a deluxe product besides, and it better be when one considers the price.
All that besides sound quality, that I believe cannot be generalized. Probably going for first presses ($$$) is the only way to increase the chance of having a decent pressing (referring to the vinyl itself now) when lacking other sources of information.
 

Godataloss

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The 80s, and even late 70s, at least in Europe, were the days of the cheap crappy repressings: gatefold covers that became single covers, artwork that was looking like made in the cheapest copy machine, credit titles pasted wherever on the back cover as a result of the missing gatefold. Inserts with artwork/lyrics that became blank inserts, vinyl thinner than paper, low quality cardboard. I think it wasn't that bad in US though.
Probably bootlegs?
 
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mash

mash

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I originally bought my first batch of records in the 70's. I would agree that the "some" of packaging, vinyl used and/or mixes from that era could be pretty bad...(I won't mention the dreaded record clubs of the 70s) but I don't remember seeing the kind of pressing/handling defects that I am seeing now (and none of my old records show evidence of those types of issues, outside of sleeve scuff marks).....although, admittedly, I wasn't paying as close attention to record quality in those days.
 

MCH

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Probably bootlegs?
No bootlegs, just cheap pressings, example from my collection (and there are many, even though I always did my best to avoid them):
IMG20221209200621.jpg
Perfectly legit:

The real thing:
joni-mitchell-court-spark-lp-180g-dcc_1_89ac82be778d76a607cce42f7bd48582.jpg
 

LouB

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Just getting back into records, gave away 500+ albulms about 20 years ago. Just bought my 1st record in 25 years. CCR 1st album off amazon & it's cover is cheap & thin the actual record is wrapped maybe a good 3/8" it plays Ok but sounds like crap. Not only that it cost about 20 bucks.
I guess I need find a decent site to buy from as there are no record stores close to me.
I thought with all the buzz and records becoming popular again I'd be getting better quality than what was around 40 years ago. "We won't get fooled again" little did they know !
 

anmpr1

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Just bought my 1st record in 25 years. CCR 1st album off amazon & it's cover is cheap & thin the actual record is wrapped maybe a good 3/8" it plays Ok but sounds like crap.

Is that Creedence Clearwater? Their records always sounded bad. At least the ones I remember. Very minimal production values. I recall buying them when new, I guess it was the mid to late '60s. Sounded like they were recorded in a garage, with one microphone. Minimal stereo separation and squashed dynamics. Back then I had no idea how an 'audiophile oriented' recording should sound, but whatever it was supposed to sound like, I new it wasn't CCR.

I don't know the rock and roll scene anymore, but I've had good luck with jazz--, pressed on heavy plastic and such. Bill Evans Trio, Chet Baker, Miles Davis etc. Even odd ball material like Sun Ra. All first rate product both sonically and physically. On a lark I bought a 12 inch 45 rpm on yellow orange vinyl, featuring the Jazz Messengers. Also first rate.

So it's out there. From my limited experience, records today are better quality than when I started collecting, in the '60s.


jm.jpg
 

LouB

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Yep, Creedence Clearwater it is. Funny you mention production quality on those recordings but it fits right in with Saul Zaentz, Fantasy records & what a miserable time He put John Fogarty through. I bet Saul used the cheapest gear He could get away with. If I remember right He sued John F for self-plagiarism ? I can't imagine how you can plagirise yourself but that lawsuit tied up Fogarty for decades.
Anyway thanks for tip & I'm a Jazz lover I'll buy a few of those.
 

JSmith

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I don't remember seeing the kind of pressing/handling defects that I am seeing now
T'was also rife in the late 80's and 90's, so not new really... especially if one purchased house/techno records. The situation won't improve either... as since the large record production facilities mostly saw their demise, there weren't many left and there still isn't. Sure there has been a slight resurgence of the format, but nowhere near enough to get back to the glory days before cassette and CD. In some cases it can be better quality wise to find an original 2nd hand pressing that has been looked after, rather than a new pressing.


JSmith
 

anmpr1

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fits right in with Saul Zaentz..., Fantasy records...

LOL about Saul.

I'd forgotten the label, but you're right. Fantasy was it.

Really, a lot of recordings from the '50s and '60s are top tier, sonically. It simply depended upon who was doing the recording, and the care they took. An eye opener for me was the Beach Boys catalog. Once Brian came into his own, he was living in the studio, working with four track machines. He'd send the Boys out on tour, to make money, and he stayed 'home', working the best of the LA studio musicians.

For reasons only Brian knew, he mixed everything down to mono; for stereo records Capitol used their Duophonic artificial 'enhancement. The physical record quality was OK, at best. I remember a lot of surface noise--pops and clicks, etc.

When the Pet Sounds Sessions CD came out, for the first time we could hear the raw session background tracks, in ambient stereo. Then the vocal multi tracks. I was astounded. My ears were speechless. I had no idea there was that much mixed into those monophonic grooves. Plus, the sound quality from those tapes remains first rate, even in our pristine digital age.
 

digitalfrost

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Wondering what others are seeing and/or how you are handling the issue?
I can generally agree that one needs to be careful with vinyl quality. I have some records from my parents from when vinyl was mainstream and some of them have very little material and feel very flimsy, but they all play fine.

From the newer stuff I bought, almost everything is 180g, but despite them feeling more solid I've had some issues. Not a lot, but still. I found a vinyl store that is understanding and replaces bad records without making a huff so now I'm buying everything from them. On one particularly bad example where I bought the same record 2 times and both were atrociuous they even got an employee sitting down and listening to my example to make sure they were no defects. I got QA listening protocol and each vinyl packed in a dedicated sleeve. So now I just get everything from them.

So basically, same story as yours, buy from trusted sources or make sure you can return it.

One interesting side point is that "album packaging" (outer/inner sleeves, accessory content) is typically better these days. I think this has as much to do with the fact that half of the current vinyl market is older nostalgia collectors and they expect premium packaging if they are going to shell out +$30 for a collector's version package.
I absolutely hate the paper seelves they use nowadays because they lose fibers and it will scratch across the vinyl and leave little white specks everywhere. I am pretty sure I once destroyed a new record when first pulling out the vinyl because there was some paper needle that somehow formed from shipping.

I have no idea if they were better in the past or if the old records I have simply already lost all the bits that were to lose. But the paper feels smoother.
 
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