Dedicated power to components

[steve59]

My stereo is in a finished room in my basement on a 15 amp breaker that shares power with a couple computers, fluorescent lights and a couple printers. The house has a 100 amp service with all circuits full, so I think my option would be a 40 amp sub panel with direct wiring to my components.

has anyone else run a dedicated line to their system and was the difference obvious? Do I stop there or add hospital grade outlets?

 

[DVDdoug]

has anyone else run a dedicated line to their system and was the difference obvious? Do I stop there or add hospital grade outlets?

Is there a problem? Do you get noise when the lights or computers are on, or something? If there's nothing wrong there's nothing to fix,

As far as I know, "hospital grade" is related to safety, not electrical noise or electrical quality.

And a dedicated line may not make a difference unless it's on the a different phase. Everything is connected together where the power comes-onto the house anyway, so it usually doesn't make any difference if it's connected at the breaker box or somewhere else.

In the U.S. we have 240V "split phase" with 120V going to half of the house and the other 120V going to the other half, and both phases going to some 240V going to some appliances. If you can put the noisy appliance on a different phase from your audio system, that MAY help.

Or even on the same phase. the resistance in the wires can provide some filtering and if you have a high-wattage load that causes a voltage drop, the volage drop will be (mostly) isolated to those particular wires and that circuit.

If fluorescent lights are causing electrical noise the best solution is to replace them with LEDs or incandescent lights.

 

[steve59]

I've read on more than one place the first place to start when putting together a hifi system is to start with the power going in. Many reviewers, (I understand they're journalists first often)claim to provide a separate breaker and dedicated line for the system and while never verified most guys seriously into hifi claim to have done so. I think a sparky charges around $500. and if it improves noise by 5% that's a bargain in audiophile dollars. My systems a hair under $50k retail so there's days I feel foolish for not doing it.

 

[NiagaraPete]

I've read on more than one place the first place to start when putting together a hifi system is to start with the power going in. Many reviewers, (I understand they're journalists first often)claim to provide a separate breaker and dedicated line for the system and while never verified most guys seriously into hifi claim to have done so. I think a sparky charges around $500. and if it improves noise by 5% that's a bargain in audiophile dollars. My systems a hair under $50k retail so there's days I feel foolish for not doing it.

BUYER BEWARE! Don't believe everything you read. Without lab tests these products and claims are bunk.

 

[Doodski]

I think a sparky charges around $500. and if it improves noise by 5% that's a bargain in audiophile dollars. My systems a hair under $50k retail so there's days I feel foolish for not doing it.

Improving the overall AC mains voltage by 5% would mean a 5% increase in voltage at the load (speakers) at clipping. If this is a 56.6VDC power supply delivering 200WRMS@8R then the 5% increase would make the power 59.43VDC @ 220.7WRMS@8R. Nothing to write home about in terms of improvement.

 

[MAB]

I have dual 200 Amp panels that were installed in our old house when we removed the 100 year old wiring.
I ran dedicated drops for hifi when I remodeled the listening room, each with a gang of outlets for each phase, all wired with 8 gauge straight to the panel to with each outlet having it's own 20A circuit. I used hospital outlets. One pair circuits powers four Bryston 7B amps, and a pair of active monitors, and a host of gear. I got another system with a triamped stack of Hypex and Purifi amps. The fancy power wiring makes zero difference. I did it because I could and it wasn't expensive for me. (I'm probably going to toss the hospital outlets because I think they look stupid and they do no better than a standard 20A). To be clear, I was quite sure that all of this wiring would be inaudible, I am a physicist and am aware of the laws governing electricity. I just like the way it looks.

 

[Doodski]

I have dual 200 Amp panels that were installed in our old house when we removed the 100 year old wiring.
I ran dedicated drops for hifi when I remodeled the listening room, each with a gang of outlets for each phase, all wired with 8 gauge straight to the panel to with each outlet having it's own 20A circuit. I used hospital outlets. One pair circuits powers four Bryston 7B amps, and a pair of active monitors, and a host of gear. I got another system with a triamped stack of Hypex and Purifi amps. The fancy power wiring makes zero difference. I did it because I could and it wasn't expensive for me. (I'm probably going to toss the hospital outlets because I think they look stupid and they do no better than a standard 20A). To be clear, I was quite sure that all of this wiring would be inaudible, I am a physicist and am aware of the laws governing electricity. I just like the way it looks.
View attachment 247530

Those orange hospital grade outlets are screaming out, "Let me power your gear!"

 

[Sokel]

A while ago I posted some measurements of what strange devices like motors,A/Cs,led lights,dimmer of lights can do.
There will never be a hi/fi or similar set on a shared line never again.
Moreover,living in Europe I made sure all plugs are connected according to el. standards (not so uncommon NOT to be) AND marked them (as I have also seen in measurements the havoc that the opposite polarity does).

 

[Mr. Widget]

I am also in an old house in the US that was seriously under powered so much so that at times my amps would distort heavily and then shut down. I ran a dedicated 20 amp circuit with oversized wiring from the main panel... in this case, it made a huge difference, but in most situations I wouldn't worry about fancy wiring schemes unless you are having gounding/noise issues in either audio or video equipment.

Hospital grade outlets have helped me out in a previous location where we had ground issues. There I found putting all of the AV gear on the same leg of the service with the hospital grade outlets stopped the ground loop issues.

 

[Beershaun]

I've read on more than one place the first place to start when putting together a hifi system is to start with the power going in. Many reviewers, (I understand they're journalists first often)claim to provide a separate breaker and dedicated line for the system and while never verified most guys seriously into hifi claim to have done so. I think a sparky charges around $500. and if it improves noise by 5% that's a bargain in audiophile dollars. My systems a hair under $50k retail so there's days I feel foolish for not doing it.

I'd recommend watching this video from our host first. You should protect your gear from power surges but there is absolutely no benefit to attempting to condition or improve the electricity going in to your gear. Save your money. https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...noise-filtering-for-your-audio-devices.21057/

 

[jdpurvis]

My stereo is in a finished room in my basement on a 15 amp breaker that shares power with a couple computers, fluorescent lights and a couple printers. The house has a 100 amp service with all circuits full, so I think my option would be a 40 amp sub panel with direct wiring to my components.

has anyone else run a dedicated line to their system and was the difference obvious? Do I stop there or add hospital grade outlets?

 

[jdpurvis]

The cost of adding additional capacity tends to be relatively independent of the amount, i.e. adding 50 or 100 amps is similar. I would review whether your 100 amp service is adequate for the long term. If you are adding additional capacity, then delivering more to your basement is easy. I agree that power conditioning is of relatively low benefit to sound quality unless there is simply not enough to support the load. Hospital grade outlets would add nothing to properly wired normal outlets.

 

[Doodski]

Hospital grade outlets would add nothing to properly wired normal outlets.

Hospital grade outlets should be a bit tighter fitting and last longer overall compared to regular grade home outlets. If that translates into performance is another question. Not likely.

 

[DVDdoug]

mproving the overall AC mains voltage by 5% would mean a 5% increase in voltage at the load (speakers) at clipping. If this is a 56.6VDC power supply delivering 200WRMS@8R then the 5% increase would make the power 59.43VDC @ 220.7WRMS@8R. Nothing to write home about in terms of improvement.

That's assuming an unregulated power supply. Almost all modern audio electronics have a regulated power supply to hold a constant internal DC voltage. As a bonus, the voltage regulation adds additional noise filtering.

You might find a cheap amp or an older tube amp with an unregulated supply.

A 5% reduction in noise is -0.45dB. Essentially no difference. And a change in AC power noise doesn't necessarily translate to a reduction in noise in the audio. Of course, you don't want to hear the 50/60Hz power line at all! Pure noiseless AC is a bad thing if it gets into the audio!

P.S.
I Googled "hospital grade" and it looks like the main thing is a spec for the amount of force required to pull it out so it's less likely to be accidently pulled out. And there was something about a "more reliable" ground connection. The red ones are connected to an uninterruptable power source. And, I think hospital grade plugs/cords can be pulled-out by the cord without damage,

 

[Doodski]

That's assuming an unregulated power supply. Almost all modern audio electronics have a regulated power supply to hold a constant internal DC voltage. As a bonus, the voltage regulation adds additional noise filtering.

You mean a SMPS is now the norm and regulated?

 

[Beershaun]

That's assuming an unregulated power supply. Almost all modern audio electronics have a regulated power supply to hold a constant internal DC voltage. As a bonus, the voltage regulation adds additional noise filtering.

You might find a cheap amp or an older tube amp with an unregulated supply.

A 5% reduction in noise is -0.45dB. Essentially no difference. And a change in AC power noise doesn't necessarily translate to a reduction in noise in the audio. Of course, you don't want to hear the 50/60Hz power line at all!

And there will actually be NO change in noise and distortion with any modern, safe, audio component power supply. See the video I posted for more information.

 

[DonR]

I have several motor loads that frequently affect the sound systems in my home: my well pump, my furnace, my freezers and my refrigerator. Infrequent disturbers include blenders, power tools and the like but these are not as important. I swapped all the motor loads to one rail of the split phase which is fine because their loads are random and tend to be spread out and made sure the audio equipment is on the other. I also got rid of all remaining fluorescent fixtures.

 

[steve59]

That was a lot of input, thanks for the contributions. I didn't post the led's on a dimmer switch or the modem/router and from reading through this thread the only likely source of noise would be coming from the dimmer switch, and while they do sometimes sing I wouldn't say the sound is coming from the system. I just have a crapload of electronics down here, My integrated quit shutting down since I swapped out the salon 2's but the breaker didn't flip.

Sokel, if you could direct me to your post/thread I would like to read it.

 

[MAB]

Hospital grade outlets should be a bit tighter fitting and last longer overall compared to regular grade home outlets. If that translates into performance is another question. Not likely.

Yes, they do fit snug. I have a standard set of commercial grade 20A outlets in less vivid colors that I am going to replace when the orange hospital outlets finally bother me enough.

Funny thing, the wiring from 100 years ago in our house never bothered the hifi, even with a stack of a stack of Bryston amps and stuff. The areas of the house that did suffer the old wiring were the kitchen and the shop. After installing the two electrical panels the kitchen is perfect and the shop is transformed. The only difference in the hifi is the lights don't dim quite as much when powering on amps. But that's likely due to having separate circuits, not the outlets and the wires themselves. And it is so convenient for an electronics hoarder to have lots of nice outlets around the room to plug things into

 

[Chrispy]

My stereo is in a finished room in my basement on a 15 amp breaker that shares power with a couple computers, fluorescent lights and a couple printers. The house has a 100 amp service with all circuits full, so I think my option would be a 40 amp sub panel with direct wiring to my components.

has anyone else run a dedicated line to their system and was the difference obvious? Do I stop there or add hospital grade outlets?

I'd just stop reading the nonsense you have been?