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Ascend Acoustics Announces New Klippel NFS-Optimized Sierra Towers and Horizon Center

lateralous

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Having had the ribbon towers on backorder, this was a great surprise to see the announcement and requested the upgrade immediately. Seeing the performance of the LX I am expecting a well-engineered implementation of improvements brought about by NFS data into the design. Only problem is, I may be regretting my sub purchase if these dig :).
 
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mj30250

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Totally agree with this.

I was sold on the LX based on measurements. Really an excellent speaker, clean as hell and can take a ton of power. I would have expected them to sound perfect based on the Klippel data. But... I found the uppermids or highs too much. Songs like "in the air tonight", Phil Collins voice didn't have any body. This is with the speaker not too far out from the wall in a moderately reflective room. I'm still trying to find what the correlates with in the data. I tried eqing the peaks at 1khz and 3 khz etc, but nothing really helped. Not sure which aspect of the spins apply to what I heard. Kinda reminded me of the BMR v1.5.

Now I see the new super sierra towers coming out... I know when I see the measurements, I'm gonna want to buy a pair. I'm a sucker for good spins apparently ;)
I can't say that I've ever found the uppermids / highs of the LXs to be too much in my room, but there is a "leanness" to the speakers in some aspects that I attach to the simple fact (perhaps incorrectly) that they are 2-ways. I don't know how one can discern this from measurements, either. The LX spins are nearly textbook perfect in many ways (on-axis, early reflections, directivity, PIR, etc). That's not to say that they aren't still wonderful speakers, they work extremely well in a space that's not conducive to anything much larger.

I can say with full confidence that the 3-way ELX towers do not present this trait. I find them to be completely balanced top-to-bottom, nothing seems missing or overdone whatsoever to my hearing. In looking at the spins for both speakers, I don't know what else to ascribe this to beyond the dedicated midrange. I doubt it's much to do with the additional woofer, distortion, or the larger cabinet.
 
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aarons915

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Totally agree with this.

I was sold on the LX based on measurements. Really an excellent speaker, clean as hell and can take a ton of power. I would have expected them to sound perfect based on the Klippel data. But... I found the uppermids or highs too much. Songs like "in the air tonight", Phil Collins voice didn't have any body. This is with the speaker not too far out from the wall in a moderately reflective room. I'm still trying to find what the correlates with in the data. I tried eqing the peaks at 1khz and 3 khz etc, but nothing really helped. Not sure which aspect of the spins apply to what I heard. Kinda reminded me of the BMR v1.5.

Now I see the new super sierra towers coming out... I know when I see the measurements, I'm gonna want to buy a pair. I'm a sucker for good spins apparently ;)

There are 2 things from the spin that jump out in the Sierra LX, the first is the peak between 1 and 2k which can and should be EQ'd. The other issue is seen in the Early reflections directivity index, there is a clear mismatch going on and the off-axis response gets stronger in the 2-5k range, you can see the directivity index moving back down in that region closer to 0. This problem is trickier as I learned when I had the KEF R3 for a year, you basically need to EQ that region slightly but it's a delicate balancing act because that means you will create a slight dip in the on-axis response. I've found it much more preferable subjectively to have the DI index go the other way when there is a directivity mismatch because in this case the direct sound is still neutral and you're not missing anything.
 

MarkS

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In post #24, @mj30250 used the terms, " ... bigger, fuller, and better composed ...". These terms, along with others like "bloated", liquid", "incisive", "harsh", "insightful" and "vivid", are totally and absolutely useless without references to measurements
I don't agree. I believe that today's speakers are still different enough and imperfect enough to be reliably judged solely on listening impressions.

If I understand Harman reasearch correctly, they had listeners rank speakers without knowing the measurements, and then, afterward, correlated the rankings to the measurements. They found a positive correlation. This implies that the listeners' rankings had value. If they had no value, there would be no correlation.
 
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BrokenEnglishGuy

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I don't agree. I believe that today's speakers are still different enough and imperfect enough to be reliably judged solely on listening impressions.
If audiophiles would priority room treatment instead of upgrades his cables first, this will be sigly true and valid.
 

aarons915

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I don't agree. I believe that today's speakers are still different enough and imperfect enough to be reliably judged solely on listening impressions.

If I understand Harman reasearch correctly, they had listeners rank speakers without knowing the measurements, and then, afterward, correlated the rankings to the measurements. They found a positive correlation. This implies that the listeners' rankings had value. If they had no value, there would be no correlation.

They did the listening sessions blind though, an important distinction.
 

McFly

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Will they be publishing the spin data?
 

muad

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I can't say that I've ever found the uppermids / highs of the LXs to be too much in my room, but there is a "leanness" to the speakers in some aspects that I attach to the simple fact (perhaps incorrectly) that they are 2-ways. I don't know how one can discern this from measurements, either. The LX spins are nearly textbook perfect in many ways (on-axis, early reflections, directivity, PIR, etc). That's not to say that they aren't still wonderful speakers, they work extremely well in a space that's not conducive to anything much larger.

I can say with full confidence that the 3-way ELX towers do not present this trait. I find them to be completely balanced top-to-bottom, nothing seems missing or overdone whatsoever to my hearing. In looking at the spins for both speakers, I don't know what else to ascribe this to beyond the dedicated midrange. I doubt it's much to do with the additional woofer, distortion, or the larger cabinet.
There are 2 things from the spin that jump out in the Sierra LX, the first is the peak between 1 and 2k which can and should be EQ'd. The other issue is seen in the Early reflections directivity index, there is a clear mismatch going on and the off-axis response gets stronger in the 2-5k range, you can see the directivity index moving back down in that region closer to 0. This problem is trickier as I learned when I had the KEF R3 for a year, you basically need to EQ that region slightly but it's a delicate balancing act because that means you will create a slight dip in the on-axis response. I've found it much more preferable subjectively to have the DI index go the other way when there is a directivity mismatch because in this case the direct sound is still neutral and you're not missing anything.
Ok, so I'm not completely crazy with finding them lean. Everyone was very enthusiastic about them and they do sound incredibly good. But Aarons915 maybe right that it's likely the off axis elevation in the lower treble. I remember Eqing that as well and I still couldnt quite fix it. Much easier to eq something obvious in the listening window or eir response. But those fixes didn't help either.

As I said the BMR had a similar presentation. Speakers that didn't come of as lean were my ls50 meta, the lintons and revel f206.

The BMR erdi is very flat and even. The lintons have a similar erdi as the LXs and wider dispersion overall, yet sound less lean. The metas are too dissimilar in their topology to draw any conclusions from.

Getting curious to see how the new towers measure up
 

bkdc

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There is no good way to measure the life-like pluck of a guitar string that sounds ultra-realistic in one speaker but not another. No reasonable set of measurements can give that impression of hearing your favorite super-duper well-mastered recordings from *name your favorite audiophile mastering label here* (mine is Stockfisch records) and have them played back on different speakers.

We are (almost all) objectivists but still the most objective data cannot explain everything.
 

MarkS

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*name your favorite audiophile mastering label here* (mine is Stockfisch records)
Just don't buy their €1880 speaker cables! ;)

 

bkdc

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Just don't buy their €1880 speaker cables! ;)


I always use two Stockfisch albums when assessing speakers.

1) Sara K - Hell or High Water
2) Eugene Ruffolo - In a Different Light

They are two of the best mastered acoustic albums I’ve ever heard. Full range, no compression, exquisite detail. The recording engineers are superb.
 
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goldark

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Measurements of the ELX ribbon tower have been released.
 

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RMW_NJ

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And here’s pricing from Ascend forum.

Introductory pricing through Jan 1st:

ELX Ribbon Tower pair (all finishes) = $4998 + shipping. Pricing will increase to $5298 in January.

ELX Titan Tower pair (all finishes) = $4398 + shipping.

ELX Ribbon Horizon, domestic cabinet = $2798 + shipping.

ELX Titan Horizon, domestic cabinet = $2498 + shipping.
 

PatentLawyer

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That looks pretty dandy, no??
 

fineMen

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Measurements of the ELX ribbon tower have been released.
The wide-band deviations from flat would rule them out to be used as monitors. These speakers appear to me as deliberately being 'voiced'. Presumably towards mildly fresh/clear/shiny w/o aggressiveness.
 
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mj30250

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That looks pretty dandy, no??
Yes, the ELX measurements are solid.

Having compared them extensively over many months to Revel F226Bes, and having reconciled what I hear with the Klippel measurements, I'll give a few quick thoughts before I'm forced to turn my attention back to work...

I think for most typical rooms and applications (including for both music listenting and HT), these speakers will offer a true end game package for many people.

As long as I am reasonably on-axis to the tweeter vertically, I personally want for nothing with the ELX towers. They extend down to about 25Hz in my room, offer the best higher-midrange reproduction that ever I've heard in a pair of speakers, which extends all the way out to the high treble, and they play incredibly loud without a hint of strain or audible distortion (roughly 95 dB continuous w/ 115+ dB peaks measured from the MLP, which is approximately 9 ft from the speakers). The mid-upper bass sounds incredibly full and in perfect balance with the rest of the frequency range, accounting for room modes that would impact virtually any speaker.

From purely a sound reproduction perspective, where these might not be a perfect fit, at least in my view:

  • If you require more vertical dispersion, perhaps because you'll frequently be moving up and down out of the sweet spot, or if you are looking for more of a "party / recreation room" type of speaker. Even when outside of the vertical listening window, they do not sound bad at all, and they actually retain a very pleasant sound quality top to bottom, however, there is a noticeable treble drop off and some of the more impressive and visceral aspects of the treble fades way. The Revels maintain their higher frequency tonality much more solidly when I stand up.
  • If you listen very loudly while having a large room to fill and / or are sitting at far distances from the speakers. While the distortion measurements for drivers of this size are impressive, these aren't meant to take the place of PA speakers for truly big spaces and ultra-farfield applications.
  • If your sidewalls are very close or if you otherwise don't have a need or desire for wide dispersion.

Otherwise, these absolutely deserve an audition if within your budget, even if your budget is much higher than they cost.
 
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mj30250

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The wide-band deviations from flat would rule them out to be used as monitors. These speakers appear to me as deliberately being 'voiced'. Presumably towards mildly fresh/clear/shiny w/o aggressiveness.
I agree that usage as monitors was likely not a part of the design philosophy, but between the listening window and directivity, with proper positioning and EQ, I imagine that one could flatten out virtually all of the wide (and relatively minor) deviations.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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Seems to be an outstanding directivity and FR, my only concern it's the distortion between 300hz-20khz is not close (lets see only the 300hz-20khz range, because the 208 is using 8'' woofers. The guy from A.A was right btw, these woofer are pushing a lot of bass at low distortion) vs Revels like F208.



Also there is a peak of distortion at 300hz~



In my ignorance, i don't know if this were the best low distortion build or not, I saw there is a lot of versions.

index.php

index.php
 

PatentLawyer

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@BrokenEnglishGuy , thanks for that helpful comparison; interesting to put these in perspective. Looks like these are going to be selling for around US$5K....I'm kind of intrigued, TBH.....
 
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