How do I play multichannel music through Roon and a Denon AVR?

[richard12511]

I've been trying to get into multichannel music, but I'm confused on what Roon settings and AVR settings I need to use to make it work. Everything I've tried so far sounds much worse than just playing the stereo version of the same song and upmixing to Auro-3D. When I play the multichannel version, I have violins playing beside me, and it's really bothersome. Upmixing the stereo version via Auro3D sounds much better to my ears, as the surrounds and heights are playing reverb noises and expanding the sense of space.

What "mode" does the Denon AVR need to be in? Options are:

Stereo
Multi Ch in
Multi in + Dolby
Multi in + Neuro
Auro 3D
Auro 2D
Multi Ch Stereo
Video Game
Virtual
Direct


And then, how do I configure the Roon endpoint?

That's what I've got right now.

I feel like I'm missing something fundamental here, since I've heard such good things about multichannel music, but what I'm getting is worse than stereo and much worse than upmixed stereo.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

When I play the multichannel version, I have violins playing beside me, and it's really bothersome.

How have you set up the channel levels/distances in the AVR?
Have you run the Audyssey set-up?

Stereo
Multi Ch in
Multi in + Dolby
Multi in + Neuro
Auro 3D
Auro 2D
Multi Ch Stereo
Video Game
Virtual
Direct

As a start, Multi Ch in to take advantage of th AVR configuration. Direct will also work but bypasses any processing in the AVR.

 

[Sancus]

I don't use Roon, but you shouldn't need to change the Denon mode for multi-channel music. In the absence of a setting, it will probably land on "Multi Ch In" which will play the music without upmixing. You can, of course, upmix multi-channel music, not just stereo, if you want.

Your expectations may just be off though, not sure what album you were listening to. There are basically two kinds of multi-channel music, the kind that is recorded similar to stereo but with reflections in the surround channels(ie: the boring kind), and the good kind where the surround channels are used for the direct sound of some(but not all) instruments. 2L does the latter, which is why they've won so many awards. They put the performers in a circle around the recording microphones, and pretty much publish the recording as-is with minimal changes in the mixing process.

There are of course also discrete multi-channel albums that are mixed with the studio method where specific instruments are mixed into surround and front channels.

MOST of the multi-channel classical out there is the boring kind, I believe. For example, the best recording of 1812. Of course, I'll still take that over stereo 10/10 times

 

[Kal Rubinson]

MOST of the multi-channel classical out there is the boring kind, I believe.

I think the reason may be that MOST classical listeners actually prefer that kind of recording which conveys traditional concert presentation.

For example, the best recording of 1812.

Who says that's the best? (OTOH, who cares?)

 

[Sancus]

I think the reason may be that MOST classical listeners actually prefer that kind of recording which conveys traditional concert presentation.

Yes, I figured you'd be along to say that. Honestly, I doubt it's due to market forces. Far more likely to be due to recording engineers just doing the same old thing they always have done.

If it WAS purely due to market forces, then 2L's work would be extremely unpopular and they would have failed. I mean, the music they record is hardly mainstream stuff. Some of it is pretty esoteric, to be honest. But they've still managed to achieve widespread acclaim.

Who says that's the best? (OTOH, who cares?)

I mean it's my post, so it's my opinion. If you think there's a better recording though I'd be willing to try it! I'm sure I haven't heard anywhere near all of them.

 

[Weeb Labs]

I don't use Roon, but you shouldn't need to change the Denon mode for multi-channel music. In the absence of a setting, it will probably land on "Multi Ch In" which will play the music without upmixing. You can, of course, upmix multi-channel music, not just stereo, if you want.

Your expectations may just be off though, not sure what album you were listening to. There are basically two kinds of multi-channel music, the kind that is recorded similar to stereo but with reflections in the surround channels(ie: the boring kind), and the good kind where the surround channels are used for the direct sound of some(but not all) instruments. 2L does the latter, which is why they've won so many awards. They put the performers in a circle around the recording microphones, and pretty much publish the recording as-is with minimal changes in the mixing process.


There are of course also discrete multi-channel albums that are mixed with the studio method where specific instruments are mixed into surround and front channels.

MOST of the multi-channel classical out there is the boring kind, I believe. For example, the best recording of 1812. Of course, I'll still take that over stereo 10/10 times

M83's soundtrack for Oblivion (2013) is quite a wonderful 5.1 mix. Well worth ripping from the BD!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If it WAS purely due to market forces, then 2L's work would be extremely unpopular and they would have failed. I mean, the music they record is hardly mainstream stuff. Some of it is pretty esoteric, to be honest. But they've still managed to achieve widespread acclaim.

You can make that case. They do some wonderful stuff and, for many reasons, stand out. I do question whether that means that their approach is actually prefered by the majority of the market.

I mean it's my post, so it's my opinion. If you think there's a better recording though I'd be willing to try it! I'm sure I haven't heard anywhere near all of them.

Ah. I thought it was some popularity rating posted somewhere. Actually, I have no opinion on this. Not very interested.

 

[Dimifoot]

, I have violins playing beside me,

Try switching this setting to ON

In 5 channel content, Roon is using the Back surrounds to reproduce the content of the surrounds, by default. I can’t understand why they have done this.
Switch it on, and it will send the surrounds signal to the surrounds, not the backs.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

I've been trying to get into multichannel music, but I'm confused on what Roon settings and AVR settings I need to use to make it work. Everything I've tried so far sounds much worse than just playing the stereo version of the same song and upmixing to Auro-3D. When I play the multichannel version, I have violins playing beside me, and it's really bothersome. Upmixing the stereo version via Auro3D sounds much better to my ears, as the surrounds and heights are playing reverb noises and expanding the sense of space.

What "mode" does the Denon AVR need to be in? Options are:

Stereo
Multi Ch in
Multi in + Dolby
Multi in + Neuro
Auro 3D
Auro 2D
Multi Ch Stereo
Video Game
Virtual
Direct


And then, how do I configure the Roon endpoint?

View attachment 121530
That's what I've got right now.

I feel like I'm missing something fundamental here, since I've heard such good things about multichannel music, but what I'm getting is worse than stereo and much worse than upmixed stereo.

I would start simply by checking the channel mapping. In Roon, in DSP, there is the procedural EQ module. You can mute your channels one by one and check if all is good. With the mix task you could swap channels to make it right. I assume that the AVR needs to be in Mch input mode for that. Your Roon setting seem OK, but you may want to modify them while testing. For testing I found a Mch playlist on Qobuz that includes a Mch test CD.
Mch music with the surrounds channels simply catching the room atmosphere may not sound that thrilling, and artificial room modes could sound better. For me, Mch sounds great with immersive recording where instruments are placed in all directions.

 

[richard12511]

I
Your expectations may just be off though, not sure what album you were listening to. There are basically two kinds of multi-channel music, the kind that is recorded similar to stereo but with reflections in the surround channels(ie: the boring kind), and the good kind where the surround channels are used for the direct sound of some(but not all) instruments.

I think this is it. Your photo perfectly describes what I was hearing.

I think my brain is just biased against this style of recording right now, though maybe that can change now that I know it's working as intended.

Going in, I was expecting to be transported to a nice concert hall in the best seat. That's kinda what I got, but there were guys in the audience to my left and right rudely playing their instruments.

Really, though, there's no reason music should have to only come from in front of us. I think that's an expectation set based on physical realities of playing to hundreds/thousands of people. I could see where both styles can sound great.

 

[Vince2]

I know this is an old thread but I'm wondering how do you stream qobuz multichannel recordings to the Denon receiver? There are about 40 albums 5.1 recordings. Use heos app and link to my phone qobuz app?

 

[Vince2]

The 5.1 recordings are all listed as stereo on my phone app of qobuz

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I know this is an old thread but I'm wondering how do you stream qobuz multichannel recordings to the Denon receiver? There are about 40 albums 5.1 recordings. Use heos app and link to my phone qobuz app

I don't think that heos does multichannel. Do you know?

 

[Vince2]

Maybe using an HDMI from computer and use the PC qobuz app. That would require a cable connection.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Maybe using an HDMI from computer and use the PC qobuz app. That would require a cable connection.

The Qobuz app will not support multichannel. AFAIK, Roon is the only way to play Qobuz MCH on a PC.

 

[mkt]

I just noticed that those Qobuz "Édition 5.1" play multichannel in the web browser (safari) player but not in the Mac app.

 

[Vince2]

Interesting

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I just noticed that those Qobuz "Édition 5.1" play multichannel in the web browser (safari) player but not in the Mac app.

Exactly. Here's how you can play them in 5.1 with Roon:
1. Use the Qobuz Web app and load all the Édition 5.1 albums you want into playlists.
2. Use Roon and find them under My Playlists.

 

[Vince2]

I was able to add a device, the Denon AVR digital connection, to my sound devices, and when I use a cable from computer to Denon receiver, I'm able to play multichannel from qobuz over HDMI.

 

[Chrispy]

Roon is connected via HDMI?