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Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 45 11.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 317 83.9%

  • Total voters
    378

Marc v E

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As far as Ldac is concerned: I listen through it almost every day and can savely say that through Genelec 8030's at 1 meter the difference between streaming losslessly and Ldac is negligable, or non-existend.

What I'm saying is that I'd probably fail on a double blind test or have a very hard time.
 
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Tangband

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Why would you think that including a Bluetooth option means it is the main source?:facepalm: For example, putting inputs for a tuner or phono, etc. on an integrated amplifier doesn't make any these the main source. If someone wants to listen to radio then they can, conveniently. What's wrong with that? You are arguing for a device with reduced value to those who want inputs for their music.

The way you write this, you make it seem like it is 'beneath' this device and a 30 dollar drag. It's not, it's a 30 dollar value add to the consumer in a sea of DACs that all sound identical.
Ofcourse it can have bluetooth to for casual non critical listening. But you never get the fantastic SINAD from this dac with bluetooth as source.

My wish list : It should also have DNLA , a digital output and airplay support , then I would happily sell my Yamaha wxc50 who can do all this but in a slightly lower fidelity way.
Its nice that the topping dac seems so good .
 

Tangband

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As far as Ldac is concerned: I listen through it almost every day and can savely say that through Genelec 8030's at 1 meter the difference between streaming lossless and Ldac is negligable, or non-existend.

What I'm saying is that I'd probably fail on a double blind test or have a very hard time.
But the thruth is that lossless is better , even if you barely can hear it . In 2022 theres no need for a compressed soundformat at all.
 
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Marc v E

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But the thruth is that lossless is better , even if you barely can hear it . In 2022 theres no need for a compressed soundformat at all.
Convenience?

Certainly if it's only distinguishable by measurements and not by double blind, then it's beyond what humans can hear, so then it doesn't really matter.
 
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Tangband

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Convenience?

Certainly if it's only distinguishable by measurements and not by double blind, thenit'sbeyond whathumans can hear, so then it doesn't really matter.
I use bluetooth in the kitchen with a Bose mini. Its a convenient way to listen with subquality gear. Its ok for non critical listening while doing other things like cooking.

However , bluetooth doesnt belong in a really good listening environment with good listening gear, and active listening .

Its as bad as Spotify, and if you are combining spotify with bluetooth you get a VERY bad sound result .

I wish Amirm could do a test with combining 256 kBit mp3 with bluetooth and then show the real SINAD of that.
 
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GXAlan

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I wish Amirm could do a test with combining 256 kBit mp3 with bluetooth and then show the real SINAD of that.
I mean, we should be able to take a 16/44 test tone, convert to MP3 and back to WAV and assess performance, right?
 

Tangband

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I mean, we should be able to take a 16/44 test tone, convert to MP3 and back to WAV and assess performance, right?
The big problem is that people often combine bluetooth with 256 kBit material .
It gets VERY bad combined.

I found a test of bluetooth combined with mp3 :
 

nsfgp

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Nice to see a lot of BT/LDAC performance discussion in a DAC here on this thread. Hope this is the start to remind Amir that more than a few folks wants to see some BT measurement in DAC/AMPs.
For the BT/LDAC hater. Just FYI can quote 3 measurements here just for kicks and you can decide what it is.
By Wolf: DX7Pro+ BT -> 115 SINAD
1668668890011.png


By Wolf: Topping G5 BT -> 114 SINAD
1668668951885.png


By member Rja400 here: D90LE LDAC BT -> 111 SINAD
1668669424694.png


Also want to mention that Topping is the only outfit that sometimes mention the BT signal will be routed to the main DAC chip for decoding. (eg. DX7Pro+/DX5/DX3Pro+ I can only recall these 3 mentioned). I listen a lot thru LDAC 96khz from my Galaxy S9 to DX3Pro+ and sound quality is excellent. FWIW.
Have fun everyone. Do not count BT/LDAC off yet ... the day of 120 SINAD BT is not too far hopefully :)
 

antcollinet

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I use bluetooth in the kitchen with a Bose mini. Its a convenient way to listen with subquality gear. Its ok for non critical listening while doing other things like cooking.

However , bluetooth doesnt belong in a really good listening environment with good listening gear, and active listening .

Its as bad as Spotify, and if you are combining spotify with bluetooth you get a VERY bad sound result .

I wish Amirm could do a test with combining 256 kBit mp3 with bluetooth and then show the real SINAD of that.
Id be very interested for you to do the test here and show the results of which bitrate of mp3 you can distinguish from lossless. You might be surprised. I know I was.

 

MAB

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Ofcourse it can have bluetooth to for casual non critical listening. But you never get the fantastic SINAD from this dac with bluetooth as source.
You missed or avoided my point completely. But, since you keep coming back to your concern that the bluetooth source will have reduced SINAD, can you demonstrate that it is audible?
 

morillon

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interesting to observe sinad at 1k is good to see very good .... in values rather "Asr transparency etc" on compressed files degraded in pure audio ...
can it be shown that this measurement alone? on just one frequency is very very limited alone
;-)
no?
(we certainly have no choice but in our cases we observe measures on signals of an extreme simplification compared to the reality of a musical signal...
even if it's rather rigorous or interesting.. just don't forget
;-)
)
 

Sokel

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interesting to observe sinad at 1k is good to see very good .... in values rather "Asr transparency etc" on compressed files degraded in pure audio ...
can it be shown that this measurement alone? on just one frequency is very very limited alone
;-)
no?
(we certainly have no choice but in our cases we observe measures on signals of an extreme simplification compared to the reality of a musical signal...
even if it's rather rigorous or interesting.. just don't forget
;-)
)
Have a look at the multitone chart then,comes really close to what you want.
 

morillon

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I know that.
but even an ap32 is a thousand miles away...
do you realize the reality?
;-)
we are in " ultra simplification "
;-)

we are not in the observation of a calculation time of a computer on a complex calculation etc.

if you forget this great particularity of our approaches ..... it is very damaging in our reasoning
;-)
 

Marc v E

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I use bluetooth in the kitchen with a Bose mini. Its a convenient way to listen with subquality gear. Its ok for non critical listening while doing other things like cooking.

However , bluetooth doesnt belong in a really good listening environment with good listening gear, and active listening .

Its as bad as Spotify, and if you are combining spotify with bluetooth you get a VERY bad sound result .

I wish Amirm could do a test with combining 256 kBit mp3 with bluetooth and then show the real SINAD of that.
Let's do a blind test switching between ldac and streaming. Both from the same lossless source; both to the same amplifier and speakers. I will be interested to see if you can hear a difference.
 

Sokel

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I know that.
but even an ap32 is a thousand miles away...
do you realize the reality?
;-)
we are in " ultra simplification "
;-)

we are not in the observation of a calculation time of a computer on a complex calculation etc.
;-)
Tell me how many tones you would like?
A thousand?
Here you go,on my old interface:


1668672083899.png



No problem as you can see.
 

morillon

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Tell me how many tones you would like?
A thousand?
Here you go,on my old interface:


View attachment 243909


No problem as you can see.
I can do it ( thank you pkane ;-) ), just as here we use simple ap32
;-)
by the way there is a funny thing..
I damn myself if sometimes some have fun listening to the famous test signals to use.. it is possible.. and remind us of the very very simplified aspect of these

just isten to an ap32 imd dual tone 1khz jtest
;-)

I can not continue the discussion .. too difficult for me
it was just to remind you that our observations are a bit like studying 4k video in 8-bit b&w
it is interesting... a method that can be a little instructive, rigorous...
but hey, don't forget..
example
imagine the complexity of a chord..just one..of an orchestra... 90musiciens
then imagine a real musical discourse
;-)
I do the same as everyone here...
but don't forget it...
it makes you a little modest
 
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MAB

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I can do it ( thank you pkane ;-) ), just as here we use simple ap32
;-)
by the way there is a funny thing..
I damn myself if sometimes some have fun listening to the famous test signals to use.. it is possible.. and remind us of the very very simplified aspect of these

just isten to an ap32 imd dual tone 1khz jtest
;-)
in frequenciel for example..just frequenciel
I can not continue the discussion .. too difficult for me
it was just to remind you that our observations are a bit like studying 4k video in 8-bit b&w
it is interesting... a method that can be a little instructive...
but hey, don't forget
imagine the complexity of a chord..just one..of an orchestra...
then imagine a real musical discourse
;-)
OK, so you are saying that you listen to the test tones, and are reminded how simple they are. And you go on in code to suggest that they are simple compared to an chord, or component part of an orchestra.
So you suggest that you can't test a whole by analysis of the finite parts?
 

morillon

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I can't follow..
Up to you
;-)

on the other hand because the origin of my remarks
on 1khz.. a sinad very well on "compressed"
tell us what?
have a good day
;-)
 

Sokel

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I can do it ( thank you pkane ;-) ), just as here we use simple ap32
;-)
by the way there is a funny thing..
I damn myself if sometimes some have fun listening to the famous test signals to use.. it is possible.. and remind us of the very very simplified aspect of these

just isten to an ap32 imd dual tone 1khz jtest
;-)

I can not continue the discussion .. too difficult for me
it was just to remind you that our observations are a bit like studying 4k video in 8-bit b&w
it is interesting... a method that can be a little instructive, rigorous...
but hey, don't forget..
example
imagine the complexity of a chord..just one..of an orchestra... 90musiciens
then imagine a real musical discourse
;-)
I do the same as everyone here...
but don't forget it...
it makes you a little modest
I'm all for real world testing SINAD,in a typical day and a typical set-up listening session.
I really am,I try hard to think the worst ways to test that,placement as is,long cables mixed,lower levels,complex signals,no isolation,etc).
And yes,it gets worst,really worst sometimes.
But that's not a reason to dismiss everything and search in the realm of impossible.
(english is not my native language too,so understanding is limited both ways).
 
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