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How about try 3 V in non preamp mode, straight face or not? Denon' s internal test shows it is doable, just have to live with SINAD <75 dB but it may not drop by much at 3 V.
Lot's of people may want to drive their LCR with a 26 dB gain buckeye and other Hypex or Purifi based amps rated >300 W 8 ohm. The can't use preamp mode if they have the x3700/4700h that has the all or none preamp mode.
Sorry, I want to have sound and seporation just as good as the SR8015. I though going up in price may get better definition and separation, better components and or DAC's . Or is it mostly just more power? Thanks
Well I should have asked this question sooner but, I have every thing at this point again except the AVR. Will I notice any further loss of quality paring the ATI amp with one of the lower cost AVR's like the 4700, 4800 or Cinema 50 vs the SR8015? Thanks
If you have the SR8015 that has the AK4458 then you have nothing to worry about. If yours has the PCM5102A then it may not do any better than the Denon x3800/4800h, may even do worse but it would depend.
If you have the SR8015 that has the AK4458 then you have nothing to worry about. If yours has the PCM5102A then it may not do any better than the Denon x3800/4800h, may even do worse but it would depend.
That unit was sold with my home. I am doing a new home and system. But the unit was an early one with the 4k 120 issue, it would not do that signal. So I would be buying a new one today.
So hey, are you going to offer to have this tested? I was thinking of picking up this same amp as well. If it tests well, then makes a good amp as you're planning. If it tests really well, I was thinking of picking up a second and pairing it with a miniDSP flex or flex eight for an active three way...
With Amir busy with house repairs, @Buckeye Amps and I discussed whether I might share some of my efforts to measure his Purifi amplifier as a stop gap until Amir can do so. A couple of disclaimers here as I am NOT an experienced electrical engineer and my QuantAsylum test rig is NOT as capable...
That unit was sold with my home. I am doing a new home and system. But the unit was an early one with the 4k 120 issue, it would not do that signal. So I would be buying a new one today.
I think if you buy one that was made in the 2nd half of last year it will likely have the TI DAC IC so better double check if you want the better measured performance of those at launch time.
I think if you buy one that was made in the 2nd half of last year it will likely have the TI DAC IC so better double check if you want the better measured performance of those at launch time.
I saw a thread you had been in on the Audioholics site A contributor EMN said the Cinema 50 would perform worse than the X3800H. The Cinema 50 has the same price point and the 4800 But the Cinema 50 has 15W less power. Have they done something wrong with the Cinema 50. They are in stock here in PHX and I was thinking about picking one up instead of a 4800.
I saw a thread you had been in on the Audioholics site A contributor EMN said the Cinema 50 would perform worse than the X3800H. The Cinema 50 has the same price point and the 4800 But the Cinema 50 has 15W less power. Have they done something wrong with the Cinema 50. They are in stock here in PHX and I was thinking about picking one up instead of a 4800.
Nothing wrong if the Cinema 50 replaced the SR6015 that is somewhat comparabe with the Denon AVR-X3700H. The Cinema 40, if it is the replacement of the SR7015, then it should be compared to the AVR-X4800H.
That's the point. I can buy Hypex or Purifi but can't upgrade the DAC. So I'm stuck debating whether to buy a product with a subpar DAC. Yes, I probably won't hear a difference under most circumstances, but in my mind I know this is mediocre engineering and bean counting. And yes, that will color my poor, tortured unhappy audiophile soul...
There is something to be said for good engineering instead of "good enough" engineering. Some products punch above there weight so to speak, like a Topping DAC or a Buckeye amp. And then there are products that just say, "it's good enough for 95%, call it a day..."
I have the RZ50 and run the R/L/C off Buckeye Purifi amps and I know (and this is the critical issue for me) the DAC section is the bottleneck. I may not be able to hear the distortion from the subpar DAC section but I know it and that always leaves me wondering, what if... So I agree with the above member-knowing I could upgrade the DAC section of an AVR would be an attractive option to me.
**I had contacted Denon online to notify them of my disappointment with the X3800H DAC performance and asked if I could expect a better performing AVR or DAC's for the future or with the X4800H.
Message to Denon:
Customer By Web (10/30/2022 04:50 AM)
I am a Denon enthusiast and owner of equipment for Home Studio and Home Theater. I have been waiting to purchase a replacement AVR for my home theater (replacing a Denon AVR-5600) and was disappointed with the regressive decision to place DAC's in the X3800H that underperforms the previous model X3700. Will the new AVR-X4800H have a better version of DAC's and performance with SINAD, IMD; or am I to expect the same disappointment? I want to purchase a Denon, but I am concerned with this decrease in DAC spec performance and has me doubting my commitment to purchase any future Denon product. Spec's would help me decide to buy, if they are available. Thank you for your assistance.
Denon's Message Response:
Subject
AVR-X3800H & AVR-X4800 Specs and Release
Response By Email (Carlos M) (11/02/2022 09:33 AM)
Thank you for contacting Denon Support. We appreciate the opportunity to assist you.
The AVR-X4800H is expected to have DAC Bit depth, 32 bit and DAC Sample Rate of 192 kHz, this is the same across the AVR-X3700H, and AVR-X3800H.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again. In case you weren't aware, we now offer live Chat Support from the Denon Support website. Live Chat Support will provide you with the answers you need quickly and easily from one of our knowledgeable Chat Support agents. Please visit support.denon.com/app/home/track/AvPumwpGDv8S~Y2oGnAc~yL~dz0qBy75Mv_U~zj~PP9d and click on the “Live Chat” box located to the bottom right of the Support homepage.
We hope all of your questions have been answered and any issues have been resolved. A brief survey will be emailed to you asking how we did today. This feedback helps us continuously improve the customer service experience, so we would love to hear from you. Thanks for contacting Denon and have a great day!
Regards,
Carlos M
Denon Customer Support
Auto-Response By (Administrator) (10/30/2022 04:50 AM)
These Answers were automatically selected for your consideration. If your issue is addressed in our public Answers, the solution link should be listed below. If no solutions are listed or the solutions do not match your issue, there were no public Answers matching your issue.
**I had contacted Denon online to notify them of my disappointment with the X3800H DAC performance and asked if I could expect a better performing AVR or DAC's for the future or with the X4800H.
Message to Denon:
Customer By Web (10/30/2022 04:50 AM)
I am a Denon enthusiast and owner of equipment for Home Studio and Home Theater. I have been waiting to purchase a replacement AVR for my home theater (replacing a Denon AVR-5600) and was disappointed with the regressive decision to place DAC's in the X3800H that underperforms the previous model X3700. Will the new AVR-X4800H have a better version of DAC's and performance with SINAD, IMD; or am I to expect the same disappointment? I want to purchase a Denon, but I am concerned with this decrease in DAC spec performance and has me doubting my commitment to purchase any future Denon product. Spec's would help me decide to buy, if they are available. Thank you for your assistance.
Denon's Message Response:
Subject
AVR-X3800H & AVR-X4800 Specs and Release
Response By Email (Carlos M) (11/02/2022 09:33 AM)
Thank you for contacting Denon Support. We appreciate the opportunity to assist you.
The AVR-X4800H is expected to have DAC Bit depth, 32 bit and DAC Sample Rate of 192 kHz, this is the same across the AVR-X3700H, and AVR-X3800H.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again. In case you weren't aware, we now offer live Chat Support from the Denon Support website. Live Chat Support will provide you with the answers you need quickly and easily from one of our knowledgeable Chat Support agents. Please visit support.denon.com/app/home/track/AvPumwpGDv8S~Y2oGnAc~yL~dz0qBy75Mv_U~zj~PP9d and click on the “Live Chat” box located to the bottom right of the Support homepage.
We hope all of your questions have been answered and any issues have been resolved. A brief survey will be emailed to you asking how we did today. This feedback helps us continuously improve the customer service experience, so we would love to hear from you. Thanks for contacting Denon and have a great day!
Regards,
Carlos M
Denon Customer Support
Auto-Response By (Administrator) (10/30/2022 04:50 AM)
These Answers were automatically selected for your consideration. If your issue is addressed in our public Answers, the solution link should be listed below. If no solutions are listed or the solutions do not match your issue, there were no public Answers matching your issue.
You can’t blame Level 1 support. These guys usually don’t know anything. And to be honest, he’s partially right. Same DAC as 3700v2 after they quietly changed it from v1.
You can’t blame Level 1 support. These guys usually don’t know anything. And to be honest, he’s partially right. Same DAC as 3700v2 after they quietly changed it from v1.
They have better power supplies. If the numbers all work out you might have lower noise but the THD is where the PCM5102 is worse than the AKM so the THD+N numbers may not be a lot better even though our ears are more sensitive to noise than distortion.
Nothing wrong if the Cinema 50 replaced the SR6015 that is somewhat comparabe with the Denon AVR-X3700H. The Cinema 40, if it is the replacement of the SR7015, then it should be compared to the AVR-X4800H.
Again hope this is not a dumb question but. I will be running the FCR with the ATI 200 wpc amp so would the Cinama 50 at 110 wpc be ok for the 4 surround speakers? Or would it make more sence to wait for a 4800 at 125 wpc to run the 4 surround speakers? Thanks
Again hope this is not a dumb question but. I will be running the FCR with the ATI 200 wpc amp so would the Cinama 50 at 110 wpc be ok for the 4 surround speakers? Or would it make more sence to wait for a 4800 at 125 wpc to run the 4 surround speakers? Thanks
In most situations, the 4800 would be more than ample for surrounds.
I run a 100W/ch Integra for my surrounds, with external amps for LCR.
In days of yore (circa 1985) 20W/ch was deemed ample for surround duty (!).
Having said that - the assumption is fairly efficient, standard 8ohm impedance, satellite speakers.
If you are using full range speakers all around, and they are low efficiency and/or difficult loads (below 4 ohm) the answer might potentially be different.
In most situations, the 4800 would be more than ample for surrounds.
I run a 100W/ch Integra for my surrounds, with external amps for LCR.
In days of yore (circa 1985) 20W/ch was deemed ample for surround duty (!).
Having said that - the assumption is fairly efficient, standard 8ohm impedance, satellite speakers.
If you are using full range speakers all around, and they are low efficiency and/or difficult loads (below 4 ohm) the answer might potentially be different.
Martin Logan are also known for some of their 4 ohm speakers (stats) dropping down to 1 ohm at the high end (!!)
So the question is, are they a "true" 4 ohm - staying above 3 ohm throughout the frequency range - in which case you should be fine
Or, are they the sort of "4 ohm" speaker that drops down to below 2 ohm (like a number of ML designs, and my own Gallo's) - if it is the latter, then the answer might be try them, but be ready to potentially require external amps.
You don't need a heap of power for surround - but if they are low impedance, even 30W @2ohm might be a stretch from an AVR. (Luckily an X4 has a better power supply than an X3... so you might be OK...)