Audiogon thread critical of ASR

[OldHvyMec]

Now look at how the Audiogon thread has been evolving since Amir stepped in. It's an open sewage (messages from their own members have been removed).

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That is typical of their moderation skills. NEVER will anyone step in and say "Gentleman please adhere to the rules and stay on topic"
"Please state your position and if there is a rebuttal please stay on topic, respond with courtesy and have a good time."
It is NOT within her skill set to address the members with ANY type of respect. She like her little domain oh boy howdy!

SHE will probably close or deleted the thread. That is a typical response, no regard for any information posted. Horrible Moderator.
They just suck it up and act like it's ok. It makes me want to drink _iss to clean my mouth out sorry to say. You'd be surprised the people
they had the balls to ban. They ran off 50% of their business by banning them from the forms and not letting complaints about shady sales
stand in their reviews.

I like 99% of the members there. There is that 1% that doninate the forums

 

[Killingbeans]

Let's leave cable/breaknin discussions to other threads please.

Definitely no objections from me. I suggest this one:

Ethan Winer Builds a Wire Null Tester

Ethan has built a null tester for testing audio interconnects to reveal differences between them. He has a new video on it which is kind of long on intro but then gets to the meat of the argument toward the last third:

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[fpitas]

Ethan is a friend to frightened snakes everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Now look at how the Audiogon thread has been evolving since Amir stepped in. It's an open sewage (messages from their own members have been removed).

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is typical of their moderation skills. NEVER will anyone step in and say "Gentleman please adhere to the rules and stay on topic"
"Please state your position and if there is a rebuttal please stay on topic, respond with courtesy and have a good time."
It is NOT within her skill set to address the members with ANY type of respect. She like her little domain oh boy howdy!

SHE will probably close or deleted the thread. That is a typical response, no regard for any information posted. Horrible Moderator.
They just suck it up and act like it's ok. It makes me want to drink _iss to clean my mouth out sorry to say. You'd be surprised the people
they had the balls to ban. They ran off 50% of their business by banning them from the forms and not letting complaints about shady sales
stand in their reviews.

I like 99% of the members there. There is that 1% that doninate the forums

There are two principles advocated by most members of the human race, and which have been advocated for centuries:

1) The best way to learn is to keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut.
2) Be polite. Gasoline never quenched a fire.

Jim

 

[MattHooper]

Boy oh boy, watching amir fending off the attacks and arguments on Audiogon is deja vu. Been there plenty of times as a long time Audiogon forum member.

I try to remember, though, that it tends to be only a portion, usually a smaller portion, of the membership there that will react in the knee-jerk defense/attack seen in that thread. There are plenty of folks there who don't bother to engage in those arguments and who are more open to some of the arguments Amir is presenting (and I've presented over the years). And, generally, there are plenty of good people there.

But, yeah, I'd say that thread is close to a dumpster fire except that Amir has posted tons of excellent information and arguments which is therefore available to lurkers, even if the more vitriolic posters seem immune.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Amir has posted tons of excellent information and arguments which is therefore available to lurkers,

True. We are not alone.

Jim

 

[voodooless]

But, yeah, I'd say that thread is close to a dumpster fire except that Amir has posted tons of excellent information and arguments which is therefore available to lurkers, even if the more vitriolic posters seem immune.

The more non-arguments, ad-hominem and intrigue those few create the more the silent majority will think that they are a bunch of idiots. I’d say: let them make fools out of themselves.

 

[DonH56]

I broke down over lunch and looked at the last page or two in the thread. Usual stuff, including attacks on anyone defending ASR. Whatever.

I found this nugget:

Engineering is all about facts, all about data, all about working with dogmatic data and has NOTHING to do with exploration and critical thinking. Let me stress that. Nothing to do with critical thinking, beyond following the data like it is a law, or a religion, with punishment if you do things wrong, and not according to the book. If it is not in the book, then it is not real. Just like religion, just like the dogmatic mind that has to fit into the society and crowd, just like the wiring of the mind of the masses of the peoples of the world. How that basic hard wiring of the mind comes into shape as rote learning, like a child copies the motions and expression of the adult. Zero critical thinking going on. Monkey see, monkey do.

That person clearly has not met many (any? one on a bad day?) engineers, in particular design engineers, and most certainly put no thought into who designs his audio equipment. That is essentially the antithesis of all the engineers I have known. At some point you just have to feel sorry for people with such a hateful and limited view.

Back to work - Don

 

[Geert]

even if the more vitriolic posters seem immune

We need to accept some are beyond saving. If you're not careful they drag you down.

 

[voodooless]

That person clearly has not met many engineers, in particular design engineers, and most certainly put no thought into who designs his audio equipment. That is essentially the antithesis of all the engineers I have known. At some point you just have to feel sorry for people with such a hateful and limited view.

They just apply their state of mind to “the other side”, projecting their own shortcomings onto it. It’s classic!

 

[Lambda]

Never heard of audiogon

Audiogon provides a marketplace for people to buy, sell, trade, or discuss high-end audio. Audiogon is a community for hifi enthusiasts and audiophiles.

Well sounds like a conflict of interest with ASR to me.
Bet ther high-end audio snake oil wont sell verry well if sites like ASR test it before...

 

[Daverz]

Never heard of audiogon

It used to be a great site to buy used gear (probably because it was reportedly -- I never sold there myself -- a good place to sell gear), but then it changed ownership and went into a steep decline.

 

[fpitas]

I broke down over lunch and looked at the last page or two in the thread. Usual stuff, including attacks on anyone defending ASR. Whatever.

I found this nugget:


That person clearly has not met many engineers, in particular design engineers, and most certainly put no thought into who designs his audio equipment. That is essentially the antithesis of all the engineers I have known. At some point you just have to feel sorry for people with such a hateful and limited view.

Back to work - Don

Yeah. What a weird take on engineering. Although sometimes I wish designing was that easy...

 

[aslan7]

If the Earth was really rotating 1000 miles an hour at the equator, like Mr. Science says, everybody would topple over. And I don’t hear any whooshing sound. The objectivists deny the power of the Sun, riding on a crystalline sphere, to race around the Earth.

p.s. Pythogreans believed that the movement of celestial spheres produced sound (“music of the spheres”), but because the sound was ubiquitous (panaurality), humans could not distinguish it from silence. Kepler believed it could be heard by the soul, or with really expensive interconnects.

At Audiogon many people are convinced the Earth is flat.

 

[antcollinet]

I am not writing for the few that are posing there but the many that read them.

Wow

I've just dragged myself out of the pool after diving in earlier today.

All I can say is you have far more patience and resiliance than I.

 

[GXAlan]

It used to be a great site to buy used gear (probably because it was reportedly -- I never sold there myself -- a good place to sell gear), but then it changed ownership and went into a steep decline.

It used to be like craigslist. Pay a fee, post your listing for a certain number of days. Since it wasn't free like craigslist, it decreased the risk of scams although I have been scammed on Audiogon before (and I was able to get my money back). Then audiogon wanted to be like eBay with all sorts of extra fees for bumping, percentages of the sales, etc. USAudiomart today is sort of what Audiogon was like 10-15 years ago.

Even today, there's no reason why you couldn't see the buy and sale of any of our top items here. It's really just like eBay but focused on audio gear. It's still a reasonable place to buy/sell stuff although USAudiomart is probably the better site now in my opinion.

The whole Audiogon message board thing is separate and a way to clearly bring in more money. I am very impressed with the patience that @amirm has. I made a short post on Audiogon to point out that if you believe there are subjective differences between products that it makes sense to measure the stuff yourself, and you could tell the whole pitch was suddenly to try to build "user engagement." I think they're just trying to drum up controversy since admittedly, they're getting more publicity and

The friendliest subjective message board used to be audioasylum.com. Back in the day recording engineers from Telarc and other audiophile recording labels would occasionally post, etc. Again, audioasylum today is not as good as audioasylum was in the past. You could say that's true for the social discourse in the world today.

Even here, we aren't a homogenized group. But even the tube amp owners in here value the role of applying science.

 

[MattHooper]

It can certainly be exhausting. You are dealing with a certain subset who are using a different epistemic paradigm of utter self confidence in their senses, and it's somewhat self-sealing (like Faith).

The paradigm produces a sort of Dunning Kruger problem where some folks just "don't know what they don't know" and their personal testimony can trump any expert testimony.

I'm sure it's somehow comforting to think you don't have to kowtow to any expert who explains why you are in error, but I don't find that an admirable trade-off.

 

[Axo1989]

It can certainly be exhausting. You are dealing with a certain subset who are using a different epistemic paradigm of utter self confidence in their senses, and it's somewhat self-sealing (like Faith).

The paradigm produces a sort of Dunning Kruger problem where some folks just "don't know what they don't know" and their personal testimony can trump any expert testimony.

I'm sure it's somehow comforting to think you don't have to kowtow to any expert who explains why you are in error, but I don't find that an admirable trade-off.

Well yes, I have one call to ban me after posting there. God knows why, it's not as if I'm ASR Taliban.

I honestly don't think this thread and that one differ so much, There's solid posting and crazy stuff there along with tribalist tosh, ditto here. I have no general experience of Audiogon forums though. Amir does his thing: posting good info, but devolving into some mischaracterisation, ventilation of talking points plus his odd style of anecdotes. I guess he'll win a few and lose a few.

I don't think Darko (who inadvertently triggered that thread) will care.

 

[Vacceo]

this is the essence of audiophilia. hunte the difference on everything entering the reproduction chain. the cable or the break-in are audiophilia. you get the wrong fight by going to AG and denying the existence of their hobby.

How can material fatigue (existing or not) may be a hobby?

 

[coonmanx]

LOL. I feel like maybe I should head over there just to read the nonsense.