Am i doing this wrong? Kef Reference 5 Bi-Amping

[Vacceo]

That is the interesting point of comparison, as Genelec is full class D on its Ones series. Not that it matters much, as the implementation is a lot, lot more relevant than the class of the amp.

 

[Sokel]

They state that in the 3 year development of their actives they tested all kinds of amplification and they ended up with this combination.

This smells a little of management and advertising team,the part of the clients that buy them are the big part of the hobby and class D has not the reputation it deserves yet,mostly because of the flood of the cheap chips that don't perform well high.

Going from 250 to 2.250$ for a model is a big leap and you have to be sure of the success allover.
Kef must make a living too,aren't they?

 

[fpitas]

Kef may just have a room full of class AB amps they intend to use up. I wouldn't read a lot into their decision without knowing a lot more.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

wouldnt i have double the power available to each speaker?

I don’t think so. Simplistically each amp is still amplifying the full range-signal and then half that amplified signal is being “thrown away“ in the crossover. So the total power available is roughly unchanged

 

[Chrispy]

OPs plan would work well enough if he wants to use both amps, tho. Wouldn't double the power, maybe 1 dB advantage? The fascination with passive bi-amping compared to just getting a more powerful amp eludes me....

 

[fpitas]

When you passive bi-amp, do you need fwo more super-audiophile grade speaker cables? Because those things are more expensive than good amps

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I haven't read most of the posts here. Sorry. He short oof it:

Th

Greetings ASR Family,

I’m new to posting here and have a couple of technical questions that I think I will be able to get straight forward answers from.

I recently came across my “Endgame” speakers at a price I couldn’t say no to, the Kef Reference 5, side note they are amazing.

I’m also a sucker for vintage Yamaha power amps. That’s all I have really known other then AVRS. Maybe it’s the bouncing red lights. The simple geometry, but probably mostly budget constraints. As I picked it up for a Hundred bucks….

I have everything hooked up and it sounds awesome to me. I stream Tidal connect to a Bluesound node 2i, SE out to the Yamaha C-60 pre amp, from there SE out to matching Yamaha M-60 Power amp. And from there using modest speaker wire to the Reference 5. All is good and I really couldn’t ask for more.

As a audio junkie on a budget…. Scrounging fb market etc., I came across another Yamaha M-60 power amp for you guessed it, a hundred bucks and picked it up. Seems to work great and preformed the basic maintenance checks from the service manual. Setting the pots to 10mv at idol.



Now comes the real question…. And maybe I’m nuts “this is where you guys come in”

I would like to hook up both Stereo “non bridgeable” power amps, one to each speaker.

My thought was From Each channel of the pre amp, Y-split to both cannels of the power amp. Remove the link of the KEFS and run “left channel” to the highs and “right channel” to the lows and do the same for the other speaker, effectively Bi-amping.

Is this a great idea, a bad idea, a pointless idea and why,

I have attached the specs of the power amp, the pre amp and the impedance curve of the ref 5.

Thank you all so much for any input.

The honest, truthful answer...
Don't.. Don't bother.. If you manage to find a connectivity scheme that allows these to play, you will notice no diffirence. If you make a mistake connecting them you risk a lot.. Your speakers, your money and even your house and other belongings.
Others may have already told you so, that and why...

Rather work on the little things to make your system better... My quasi-automatic advice: Multiple subwoofers. Properly integrated, multiple subwoofers with a speaker like the Kef R5, will put you in audio heaven. Take time, takes a while but .. IMO, well worth that bother.

Peace.

 

[NiagaraPete]

When you passive bi-amp, do you need fwo more super-audiophile grade speaker cables? Because those things are more expensive than good amps

No you never need those cables.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Greetings ASR Family,

I’m new to posting here and have a couple of technical questions that I think I will be able to get straight forward answers from.

I recently came across my “Endgame” speakers at a price I couldn’t say no to, the Kef Reference 5, side note they are amazing.

I’m also a sucker for vintage Yamaha power amps. That’s all I have really known other then AVRS. Maybe it’s the bouncing red lights. The simple geometry, but probably mostly budget constraints. As I picked it up for a Hundred bucks….

I have everything hooked up and it sounds awesome to me. I stream Tidal connect to a Bluesound node 2i, SE out to the Yamaha C-60 pre amp, from there SE out to matching Yamaha M-60 Power amp. And from there using modest speaker wire to the Reference 5. All is good and I really couldn’t ask for more.

As a audio junkie on a budget…. Scrounging fb market etc., I came across another Yamaha M-60 power amp for you guessed it, a hundred bucks and picked it up. Seems to work great and preformed the basic maintenance checks from the service manual. Setting the pots to 10mv at idol.



Now comes the real question…. And maybe I’m nuts “this is where you guys come in”

I would like to hook up both Stereo “non bridgeable” power amps, one to each speaker.

My thought was From Each channel of the pre amp, Y-split to both cannels of the power amp. Remove the link of the KEFS and run “left channel” to the highs and “right channel” to the lows and do the same for the other speaker, effectively Bi-amping.

Is this a great idea, a bad idea, a pointless idea and why,

I have attached the specs of the power amp, the pre amp and the impedance curve of the ref 5.

Thank you all so much for any input.

Sounds alright. BUT I wouldn't be sure that the "sound profile" is the same between the two amplifiers. Your way may have more pronounced bass on one channel and less on the other because of difference in "wear and tear" and minute differences in bias, electrolytical capacity ESR etc.. I would do it like you and I would make sure there is no difference in sound characteristic by doing a REW measurement.

 

[Daka]

Everything You Need to Know About Bi-Amping

To Bi Or Not To Bi – Bi-amping is considered one of the "ultimate aspects" of sophisticated high fidelity. In this essay, you'll read what it is exactly, how it works and what the benefits are.

stereo-magazine.com

Interesting read - there is some measurable science behind it.
I have done blind test bi amping my R3 and difference was staggering - using AVR average amps was able to get sound much closer to 2k integrated stereo amps. Obviously this might differ depending on speaker and class of amp used - maybe better the components less of a difference. Who knows - only way is to do it and blind test it.

Also there is a lot of talk 100w vs 2x100w being negligible - well from power perspective sure not much change but mid high by having separate power will not be affected by LF trying to draw all of it for instance which might happen with some dynamic peaks with some music.

 

[fpitas]

Everything You Need to Know About Bi-Amping

To Bi Or Not To Bi – Bi-amping is considered one of the "ultimate aspects" of sophisticated high fidelity. In this essay, you'll read what it is exactly, how it works and what the benefits are.

stereo-magazine.com

Interesting read - there is some measurable science behind it.
I have done blind test bi amping my R3 and difference was staggering - using AVR average amps was able to get sound much closer to 2k integrated stereo amps. Obviously this might differ depending on speaker and class of amp used - maybe better the components less of a difference. Who knows - only way is to do it and blind test it.

Also there is a lot of talk 100w vs 2x100w being negligible - well from power perspective sure not much change but mid high by having separate power will not be affected by LF trying to draw all of it for instance which might happen with some dynamic peaks with some music.

Measurable? I must have missed that part of the article. But I did find this:

In vertical bi-amping, of course, the enormous channel separation plays a role and can pay off in improving the plasticity of the reproduction.

My audiobabble has been augmented greatly!

 

[izeek]

op describes what sounds like vertical bi-amping. one amp per speaker.
my gear is set-up this way. i felt one amp powering bass was more stress than if one amp channel powered bass while the other channel pretty much loafed.
all i can say is whatever the cause, it sounds better to me this way. especially at loud volume.
ive gone back and forth between both methods and a single amp set-up. i still like the vertical.

 

[izeek]

wouldnt i have double the power available to each speaker?

no.

 

[fpitas]

More pertinent reading:

BiAmp (Bi-Amplification - Not Quite Magic, But Close) - Part 1

ESP - The Audio Pages. How to biamp or triamp your hi-hi speaker system for greatly improved sound, and higher sound levels with less distortion.

sound-au.com

Active Vs. Passive Crossovers

Active Vs. Passive Crossovers - what are the factors that make active the only choice for serious hi-fi? Driver control is not well understood, but perhaps this article will help.

sound-au.com

You may not achieve true plasticity of the fundamentlicity. Who ever does? But you may understand the real situation.