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Need Recommendation on Tube Headphone Amp

Headphonaholic

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I do (sort of) understand fun, that's why I have three turntables, but for me tubes are a step too far.
I feel like the second you decide that one non perfect technology is ok but another isn't your argument becomes irrelevant. What makes tubes a step too far and not turntables? I have no experience with turntables but I imagine the deviation in sound reproduction is the same if not greater with a turntable than a tube amp. Digital sound files are vastly superior, so why turntables? My guess is looks and nostalgia ;)

But that ignores a certain coolness and fun factor. Seriously. I use tubes, but with proper engineering so that I can achieve audible transparency. Sure I could use solid state and get the same results, but... I could also drive a Hyundai instead of a '57 T-Bird.* The Hyundai is cheaper, more reliable, and probably outperforms the T-Bird. But for car geeks, driving a T-Bird is... fun.

*Disclaimer: This is just an analogy. I drive a Hyundai because I'm largely uninterested in cars.
Tubes are cool! I own a couple tube amps myself. From a subjective audibility stand point they do sound a bit different, but it tends to be super slight in my experience. But I'll be honest with myself, I have them because they look cool, and as I have read in Don Hills signature, "People hear what they see." :)

Well I have the Monoprice Monolith tube amp. I have some hum issues but every tube amp I have had hum at this house. I am getting a UPS with AVR and pure sine wave output. I will plug the amp into the UPS and see if that helps, then unplug the UPS so it runs on battery(as suggested by another member) If it still hums, then its the amp I guess.
Could be the tubes potentially. I had a few newer production tubes that always hummed with my Darkvoice 336se and a coworkers Darkvoice as well.
 

SIY

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From a subjective audibility stand point they do sound a bit different, but it tends to be super slight in my experience.

If the box of gain is engineered to have flat frequency response, low distortion, and low output impedance, that "super slight" sound difference transforms to "non-existent.":cool:
 

Headphonaholic

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If the box of gain is engineered to have flat frequency response, low distortion, and low output impedance, that "super slight" sound difference transforms to "non-existent.":cool:
I've been waiting for Amir to test a proper tube amp for some time to see exactly what changes, specifically with different tubes. People always talk about tube swapping as major changes in sound but in my experience I can't perceive it or it is very minor. I think it would be an interesting review!
 

sergeauckland

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I feel like the second you decide that one non perfect technology is ok but another isn't your argument becomes irrelevant. What makes tubes a step too far and not turntables? I have no experience with turntables but I imagine the deviation in sound reproduction is the same if not greater with a turntable than a tube amp. Digital sound files are vastly superior, so why turntables? My guess is looks and nostalgia ;)

Looks and nostalgia, certainly, but also because I have a lot of the music on LP which I want to play, especially Quadraphonic LPs which are just not available digitally.

S
 

SIY

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I've been waiting for Amir to test a proper tube amp for some time to see exactly what changes, specifically with different tubes. People always talk about tube swapping as major changes in sound but in my experience I can't perceive it or it is very minor. I think it would be an interesting review!

People always talk about nonsense, too. :D Tube swapping (assuming you're swapping like for like and not doing silly things like plugging in an ECC82 for an ECC83- don't laugh, I've seen things like that recommended in audio forums) will have a potential effect IF the circuit position has no feedback around it, whether an explicit feedback loop or degeneration like a follower, OR if the design is incompetent and cannot accommodate the normal range of tube variation. If the tube being swapped is inside a feedback loop or is a follower, most of the difference will be psychological, not electrical.

So your perceptions are likely more accurate than those of audio forum cowboys.
 

Headphonaholic

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Oh yeah, I've never done anything like that. I do have some adapters but I've never actually used them, so no shenanigans here (too scared to blow stuff up). It makes sense to me that there should be minimal variation between different tubes. If there were larger variations that would imply that the tube is broken I would imagine. Considering the applications of tubes prior to solid state transistors, I can't imagine it would be a good thing if tubes had such wild variations in their performance. For these reasons it was always interesting to me the descriptions you can find of various tubes online.

For reference these are the tube amps I've tried: Darkvoice 336se, La Figaro 339, Dragon Inspire IHA-1. I've tried some hybrids like the Massdrop Alex Cavalli CTH (never could tell that they did anything beyond have a noise floor). I also have a cheap chinese transformer coupled tube amp at work for fun. I don't know I would say tube amps are a worth while investment considering how expensive they are and the level of performance you can get from solid state amps. Buuut they are fun to experiment with. Besides, you can say things like "listening to music by tube light" :p

I would also like to put it out there that my tube swapping was hardly scientific. I didn't have 2 identical tube amps to hook an a/b box up to. I did it with my Darkvoice and to make matters worse you have at least 2 tubes you can change on it. Hooking it up to an audio analyzer would be the only good way of testing differences. What I did was I did an a/b test against my JDS Labs o2 trying my damnedest to hear differences, if I did I would write it down, then swap a different tube and do the same. At the end I compared my notes to see what changed between tubes. Not much as it turns out.
 

Dogen

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Oh yeah, I've never done anything like that. I do have some adapters but I've never actually used them, so no shenanigans here (too scared to blow stuff up). It makes sense to me that there should be minimal variation between different tubes. If there were larger variations that would imply that the tube is broken I would imagine. Considering the applications of tubes prior to solid state transistors, I can't imagine it would be a good thing if tubes had such wild variations in their performance. For these reasons it was always interesting to me the descriptions you can find of various tubes online.

For reference these are the tube amps I've tried: Darkvoice 336se, La Figaro 339, Dragon Inspire IHA-1. I've tried some hybrids like the Massdrop Alex Cavalli CTH (never could tell that they did anything beyond have a noise floor). I also have a cheap chinese transformer coupled tube amp at work for fun. I don't know I would say tube amps are a worth while investment considering how expensive they are and the level of performance you can get from solid state amps. Buuut they are fun to experiment with. Besides, you can say things like "listening to music by tube light" :p

I would also like to put it out there that my tube swapping was hardly scientific. I didn't have 2 identical tube amps to hook an a/b box up to. I did it with my Darkvoice and to make matters worse you have at least 2 tubes you can change on it. Hooking it up to an audio analyzer would be the only good way of testing differences. What I did was I did an a/b test against my JDS Labs o2 trying my damnedest to hear differences, if I did I would write it down, then swap a different tube and do the same. At the end I compared my notes to see what changed between tubes. Not much as it turns out.

How do you like the DarkVoice? I wouldn't expect very good accuracy, but how does it sound? I’d be using it with a Sennheiser 6xx.
 
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andymok

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Rules out OTL all tube headphone amps.

Given your answer the reason for looking into tube amps "my boss, who is also an electronic/audio engineer, always keep saying Tube sounds lot more better for music appreciation." is subjective nonsense.

Price range ? connectivity ? specs ?


The reason is mostly on the distortion components, odd > even if I was not mistaken.

I wonder if US$ 500 is sufficient for sth like having SE and Bal input, SE output?
 

Headphonaholic

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How do you like the DarkVoice? I wouldn't expect very good accuracy, but how does it sound? I’d be using it with a Sennheiser 6xx.
I'll be perfectly honest with you, since I got the La Figaro I basically stopped using the Darkvoice and am considering selling it. It's a great amp, I just have too much stuff and not enough space for it all. Having heard the Little Dot MK1 & 2, I feel pretty confident that the Darkvoice is standing basically alone at the $200-300 price point. I mean I can't think of another non hybrid tube amp in this price range that is even competition for the Darkvoice.

That said, it sounded good. The Sennheiser HD650/XX is a popular pairing (one my coworker rocks as well). As for detailed subjective musings... I sadly don't seem to have any notes anymore and it's been too long since I've last listened to give any thoughts with confidence. I did do some a/b testing against my JDS Labs o2 and I don't recall it being very different. The sound wasn't the same but the differences were subtle. It has a lot of power. I did some tube rolling with it too and I personally felt that tubes didn't make enough of a difference to justify the habit (I suppose ymmv). From memory it seemed to give the midrange a bit of a bump and maybe a bit of sound stage. My guess is the output impedance was the cause of most perceived differences. It certainly won't measure well, but that is nature of the tube beast.

What I will say is that if you are curious about tube amps, it's a great one to try. It's a real tube amp and is built very solidly. It has a great look and finish. You'll feel proud to own it I think. Tubes are common for it and seem to be in middle of the road in terms of cost compared to things like the tubes the Little Dot's use.

Oh and one last thing, do keep an eye on Massdrop since Darkvoices were appearing on there for $200 every couple months.
 
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