Why the market do not move into external active design?

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

That's it, why? External DSP, power amps.. should be even cheaper and better

Modify already pasive speakers should be very hard for the owners?



Speaker industry its kind of lazy... and yet very expensive... The old folks don't even wanna change their speakers because of the industry laziness... we still have very big speakers with no bass

Bass drivers are the worst, because ''surrounds'' in the drivers are still the same for the mayority, only few improvement and very expensive.., everything is very unefective and yet very expensive for what it is. Only China are pushing this a little bit.. and maybe some ''DIY'' guys who can buy very good drivers and make his speakers in his country, buy speaker buy some Accuton drivers and make some speaker like Tidal/etc, lol.
For example a diy guy sells a similar speaker ( image below ) for 6000 usd ~ in my country, accuton drivers
accuton 8.5'' bass drivr

Another diy accuton

 

[Katji]

The mass market is changing, has changed, just the hi-fi category has not. Some of the high-end hi-fi has changed - like Kii, Avantgarde, Dynaudio, Genelec. The main part, most of hi-fi, changed already, to home theatre/AVR, although not to powered speakers, of course.

Plus there's the trend like Sonos and Homepod.* [...Which goes with the trend of more people living in high-density city areas. AKA increasing human population. It's been going on for a long time, people moving from villages and small towns to cities. Because of employment and so on.]
That trend is also motivated by the trend of development of computer/digital technology.

* And Edifier. Approx. 100 million speakers sold. iirc, The biggest speaker manufacturer in China. [edit:] No separate amplifiers, etc., only speakers. Using Texas Instruments, XMOS, Qualcomm.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Im not sure if i want fully active speakers or fully '' passive '' speaker + external dsp crossover.. hmm

 

[Recluse-Animator]

A bit off topic, but I would like all active speakers to have an external amp. Then you only need one cable to hook up the speaker.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

A bit off topic, but I would like all active speakers to have an external amp. Then you only need one cable to hook up the speaker.

i think it's kind of on topic hehe

 

[Timcognito]

The market is moving to all in one, driven by the expanding digital wireless world and the fact that both electronic and acoustic design are automated with computer modeling. So they are merging. Used to be each area of expertise was vastly different and more manually and expertise driven.

 

[McFly]

As soon as WISA plate amplifiers are available, you will see the market shift.

I think some OEMs are starting to use them. And TVs are starting to use WISA too. I think LG TV's can connect to the new Dynaudio Actives.

Forget about our niche community for a minute, and imagine the millions of people purchasing TVs. They dont want to buy stereo speakers due to the hassle, or the space taken up. If they can get over the space thing, then they can be sold a pair of speakers that can wirelessly connect to the TV directly, and have thier volume controlled by the TV at the same time from the TV remote. It needs to be convenient.

Imagine a smart TV, wall mounted, with a pair of stereo speakers out in the corners of the lounge, only plugged into wall power outlets behind them. You turn on the TV, the speakers turn on too and the volume is controlled from the TV remote, all with WISA. No thinking required. Stable. This is when the market will go full actives.

 

[Sancus]

1) People *really* don't like separate boxes you have to cable together. Wanting this is a very weird audiophile segment that is quickly disappearing altogether. But that weird segment is also hostile to actives.

2) AVRs include amps by default and like or not, HT is bigger than hi-fi nowadays.

3) All in one actives are reliable enough for the heavy duty pro studio market, so what's the benefit? Only the largest and most expensive studio monitors bother with separates (JBL M2, some of the main monitor Genelecs offer this as an option, etc).

 

[Timcognito]

Feedback and control have moved into devices. When was the last time you used a paper map when driving?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I guess if passive manufacturers don't put more effort they will die or loss significant market

Also bass it's always the problem with passive and the overall extension at this day is still bad.. Even something very expensive and big like Kef reference 5META still do not get 20hz -+3dB..

At least Devialet with these eggs have a nice Xmax in their woofers

 

[Chrispy]

A bit off topic, but I would like all active speakers to have an external amp. Then you only need one cable to hook up the speaker.

How would that work with just one cable? The cable has all the different outputs from the various amps needed for each driver? And the speaker has sufficient in one terminal to direct the amps output to each driver appropriately?

 

[Recluse-Animator]

I guess if passive manufacturers don't put more effort they will die or loss significant market

That's gonna take decades.
Passive speaker manufacturers have a bigger marketing budget than actives in the the industry as a whole.
And it's not just about speakers, but AVRs, DACs, amps and so on.
big AVR companies have huge marketing budgets compared to active speakers and studio monitor companies.

 

[AdamG]

How would that work with just one cable? The cable has all the different outputs from the various amps needed for each driver? And the speaker has sufficient in one terminal to direct the amps output to each driver appropriately?

Wireless signal capability maybe? WiFi/Bluetooth or some other wireless technology. Then you just have a power cord. But in my opinion getting power to every speaker in a 15.2 system is going to be far more complicated than running a length of speaker wire under the rug of along the floor trim.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

How would that work with just one cable? The cable has all the different outputs from the various amps needed for each driver? And the speaker has sufficient in one terminal to direct the amps output to each driver appropriately?

A speaker cable between the amp and speakers. This isn't a new thing. From a technical standpoint it doesn't matter if the amp is internal or external.

 

[telemike]

A good Wisa hub with MM phone and powered speakers would be my next system

 

[Recluse-Animator]

If the speaker were to be designed flat to 20 Hz, the listener would find the bass overwhelming.

There's not many speakers that can do 20 Hz. And for them to have overwhelming bass in a normal sized room is a stretch.
Even if that was the case it's easily solved by moving the speakers a little bit further away from boundaries.
Overwhelming room modes is another story.

 

[Chrispy]

A speaker cable between the amp and speakers. This isn't a new thing. From a technical standpoint it doesn't matter if the amp is internal or external.

Usually a speaker cable only carries signal from amp to one speaker/driver, thus my question how it works for multiple amps/drivers. Some connectors can handle a bundled connection like speak-on, otherwise what would you have particularly?

 

[Chrispy]

A speaker cable between the amp and speakers. This isn't a new thing. From a technical standpoint it doesn't matter if the amp is internal or external.

It seems you do not comprehend the situation you propose. It is a new thing generally to provide active amplification to each driver and takes generally appropriate cable/cables to accommodate. Please provide specifics of your proposal?

 

[Katji]

Why should / why would wireless technology not supersede cables?

Surely the technology will continue to advance? Wireless networking advances, BlueTooth has improved. But BlueTooth is a trademark, not the end of the story. [My active speakers have BlueTooth as an input option, of course, but the connection between the 2 speakers is uncompressed/"lossless" wireless.]
All it needs is higher bandwidth [i.e. better] wireless networking technology.

Wireless signal capability maybe? WiFi/Bluetooth or some other wireless technology. Then you just have a power cord. But in my opinion getting power to every speaker in a 15.2 system is going to be far more complicated than running a length of speaker wire under the rug of along the floor trim.

For sure. For now, for "the foreseeable future," the only way is more in-wall electrical cabling and outlets. (Some alternative to 220/110 Volts with no wire is not quite "foreseeable future," it's too far out of scope here.)
However, spatial audio / wireless headsets, alternative to multiple speakers around the room........?

 

[jhaider]

How would that work with just one cable? The cable has all the different outputs from the various amps needed for each driver? And the speaker has sufficient in one terminal to direct the amps output to each driver appropriately?

Why not? There are 8 core speaker cables and the Neutrik Speakon NL8 connector family. That’s sufficient for 4 channels per cable.