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Anyone read the latest from archimago's take on Stereophile editorial? Linked here:
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Very well written post, which won’t surprise anyone who is familiar with Arch’s blog. I think in practice it’s quite hard for the publication to climb down without triggering a loss of advertisers though, no matter how well reasoned the challenge. That said I would like to think that such outlandish ad hominem in defence of an outright rejection of the post enlightenment paradigm would carry some form of social cost in the long run. After all, who wants to announce in polite company that they make a living as an audio industry stooge, and practice in the personal smearing of engineers who measure audio gear on behalf of consumers. It’s all profoundly ungentlemanly!
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sofrep811
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Even in 1997 Fremer was like he is today.
Michael Fremer (Stereophile, formerly TAS) Possibly the most unattractive individual in the American audio community. In his writings and in his personal contacts, he is vulgar, abusive, bigoted, and intellectually dishonest. A real charmer. His favorite cause is the superiority of vinyl to CD, an argument he pursues to the limits of absurdity and animosity, making a total jackass of himself in the process. A perfect example of the excesses engendered by tweako cultism and a highly suitable addition to the Stereophile stable.
Michael Fremer (Stereophile, formerly TAS) Possibly the most unattractive individual in the American audio community. In his writings and in his personal contacts, he is vulgar, abusive, bigoted, and intellectually dishonest. A real charmer. His favorite cause is the superiority of vinyl to CD, an argument he pursues to the limits of absurdity and animosity, making a total jackass of himself in the process. A perfect example of the excesses engendered by tweako cultism and a highly suitable addition to the Stereophile stable.
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sofrep811
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This one is harsh...
William Conrad & Lewis Johnson (Conrad-Johnson) The duo chiefly responsible for, or at least heavily contributory to, the cult of formatted vacuum-tube sound, achieved with deliberately high output impedance (i.e., low damping factor) and lots of second harmonic distortion. In his famous/notorious "t-mod" soundalike experiments of the mid-1980s, Bob Carver had to screw up a perfectly neutral solid-state signal path to make it sound exactly like a Conrad-Johnson tube job. Not much has changed since.
William Conrad & Lewis Johnson (Conrad-Johnson) The duo chiefly responsible for, or at least heavily contributory to, the cult of formatted vacuum-tube sound, achieved with deliberately high output impedance (i.e., low damping factor) and lots of second harmonic distortion. In his famous/notorious "t-mod" soundalike experiments of the mid-1980s, Bob Carver had to screw up a perfectly neutral solid-state signal path to make it sound exactly like a Conrad-Johnson tube job. Not much has changed since.
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sofrep811
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PHOENIXDOGFAN posted a better link. You can access all of them here.
www.audiosciencereview.com
Audio Critic--Complete Archive
Biline.ca now has a complete archive of the original, historic journal of objective, high-end audio reviewing, the Audio Critic. Previously, Biline had only parts of Volume 2, and the online Webzine articles. As of very recently, they have filled in the gap and now have everything ever...
www.audiosciencereview.com
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Gross.
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I read Archimago all the time! (And converse with him on his site). One thing I appreciate is that he not only takes a technical approach to claims about audio gear, he also has a broad, thoughtful, somewhat philosophical underpinning to his posts. Putting things in to what for him is the wider context (and I find myself usually agreeing). So glad he's been around for so long!
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^^^ Uh..oh....
As an owner of CJ tube gear I've been outed as a tweako-cultist!
Where to hide from the torch-bearing mob!
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I always enjoyed Peter Aczel's writing about Audio. Thanks for bringing his articles back to mind.
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Oh poo! Conrad Johnson makes awesome stuff. I for one hold you in high esteem.^^^ Uh..oh....
As an owner of CJ tube gear I've been outed as a tweako-cultist!
Where to hide from the torch-bearing mob!
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Well they are hurling Bible quotes at each other on S-Fool now:
www.stereophile.com
Objectivism is like Kryptonite to them for some strange reason.
In St. Peter we trust.
Genelec G Three active loudspeaker
My review samples of Genelec's G Three powered loudspeaker came with a little hand-sized green and tan cardboard card featuring a poem in bold black letters dated 1898: At the cottage window a little bird sang. And the light of the window did flicker. And look. The roof up it sprang and the...
www.stereophile.com
Objectivism is like Kryptonite to them for some strange reason.
In St. Peter we trust.
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Harsh but fair.
As someone who has owned and owns Harmon Karden(vintage) and Luxman(newer)(and vintage Hafler SS) tube amps I can confirm they have a certain appeal in a very very limited dynamic range with high efficiency speakers. The older(53yo) I get the more I understand that hi-fi is like coffee. You like what you like, from espresso to rainbow latte and everything in between. And the more you learn, the more discriminating a consumer you can become. And with Amir's clear, approachable, indefatigable, rock solid reviews we now know EXACTLY what is is we are getting in our coffee. Thank God, finally!
Sadly it has become apparent that tube lovers pay a Premium for what is in reality sub-standard sound. But hey people love their latte's so I say...
Cheers!
Vive la dissonance!
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Well they are hurling Bible quotes at each other on S-Fool now:
Genelec G Three active loudspeaker
My review samples of Genelec's G Three powered loudspeaker came with a little hand-sized green and tan cardboard card featuring a poem in bold black letters dated 1898: At the cottage window a little bird sang. And the light of the window did flicker. And look. The roof up it sprang and the...
Objectivism is like Kryptonite to them for some strange reason.
In St. Peter we trust.
Believing without evidence, or even explicitly in the face of contradictory evidence, is a huge component of their ethos. They need their magic.
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Hi EL_PW,
Nice to make your acquaintance!
That seems like a fairly limited pool of gear from which to generalize, doesn’t it?
And of course “appeal” is subjective. What might be limited in appeal to you may have much more wide ranging appeal to someone else.
For instance the 140w of power from my CJ Premier 12 monoblocks have driven all manner of speakers in my room wonderfully. I’ve had various solid state amps to compare - most recently had a Bryston 4B3 for several months going back between it and the CJs.
With the CJs the system sounded ballsy and punchy as it also did with the Bryston, but for me also added
some richness etc that I found more compelling.
Agreed. Amir’s contribution is awesome!
Hey! Throwing’ shade on us poor tube lovers? Just a moment ago I thought I was being held in high esteem !
(The “sub-standard” sound assessment reminds me of experiences I’ve had with some folks listening to my gear. Way back when I owned a smaller CJ mV55 tube amp my brother in law, a very measurement oriented Audiophile, thought it was a bit bonkers to be using that old technology. I’ll never forget the gradual change of his expression from skepticism to eye-brows raised “wow” when he listened to some of his music on my system. He started asking me about tube amps after that…
Had a similar experience demoing vinyl)
Nice to make your acquaintance!
That seems like a fairly limited pool of gear from which to generalize, doesn’t it?
And of course “appeal” is subjective. What might be limited in appeal to you may have much more wide ranging appeal to someone else.
For instance the 140w of power from my CJ Premier 12 monoblocks have driven all manner of speakers in my room wonderfully. I’ve had various solid state amps to compare - most recently had a Bryston 4B3 for several months going back between it and the CJs.
With the CJs the system sounded ballsy and punchy as it also did with the Bryston, but for me also added
some richness etc that I found more compelling.
Agreed. Amir’s contribution is awesome!
Hey! Throwing’ shade on us poor tube lovers? Just a moment ago I thought I was being held in high esteem !
(The “sub-standard” sound assessment reminds me of experiences I’ve had with some folks listening to my gear. Way back when I owned a smaller CJ mV55 tube amp my brother in law, a very measurement oriented Audiophile, thought it was a bit bonkers to be using that old technology. I’ll never forget the gradual change of his expression from skepticism to eye-brows raised “wow” when he listened to some of his music on my system. He started asking me about tube amps after that…
Had a similar experience demoing vinyl)
I had the same experience a couple of weeks ago (except in reverse) with someone who is committed to vinyl/tube/big Klipschs listening to my Digital/solid state /big Focal system.
I don't think he rushed home and sold up but he was surprised that a system that went against everything he felt was required for good sound actually sounded good to him.
Not the first time I have had someone here who had totally rejected digital as a source saying 'Wait a minute this actually sounds good!'
For my own part I have also heard systems using vinyl and tubes sounding pretty much flawless. I think the problem is there are poor examples of both approaches and they are not uncommon. Easy to see how people get diverted into a narrow belief pathway.
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1) Not really. There is nothing 'wrong' with owning tube gear. I own them, and am happy to own them. Owning tubes doesn't make someone is a tweako cultist (but there are odds...). What he meant was that from an engineering standpoint it's ridiculous to argue that tubes can do any particular 'job' better than SS (outside of very limited areas--he mentioned RF). Of course tubes didn't make any sense at all for him, because he was operating a consumer oriented hi-fi publication focusing on 'bang for the buck', reliability, specs, practicality, and the latest in engineering tech. He didn't hold aesthetics particularly important (that is, if tube cosmetics are your thing). In fine, what he was reacting to in the article was the definite 'cultist' aspect of the high end press, and associated dealers, who pushed the 'nonsense aspect' of tubes.
The same with records (or open reel or tape). Any 'legacy' format. I own a lot of records (collecting since a kid). But I'm not going to come here and state that records are sonically better in any way, over digits. Outside of form factor, where records excel, by comparison. Digits don't even have a form. And the way they are sometimes packaged (CD) makes reading liner notes impossible. I will tell anyone who is interested that I enjoy watching records turn around, on my record player, and watching tubes glow. I openly admit that. Otherwise, in public it is best to be judicious whenever proselytizing the hobby to young impressionable minds.
2) Interesting about CJ, and how their gear 'evolved', cosmetically. In early CJ days (the Premier line) products were outwardly similar to what you could expect from ARC (and other 'high end' tube oriented brands). A simple enclosed box. Tubes were hidden. Somewhere along the line it became fashionable to once again expose tubes. This of course hearkened back to earlier times, when you built (or sometimes bought) an amp with tubes sticking out from the chassis, then covered it with a metal cage so cat wouldn't cause problems.
My dealer had both the CJ and Counterpoint franchise. To me, Counterpoint design language was more unique because of its 1U rack mount appearance. Counterpoint mounted preamp tubes horizontally, so they could make it look like a ML-1 (née JC-2), down to the black color, switches and knobs. Outwardly, a shameless Mark Levinson design knock-off, for sure. If memory is correct, CJ used a 'gold tone' front plate, that was 'unique' (in an old Fisher sort of way).
Now, as is the fashion, CJ has tubes sticking out of the top, out in the open and exposed. ARC sometimes still uses an enclosed metal box, but with a glass front, so you can watch the tubes. The top ARC looks like it was removed from a rack panel of Honeywell gauges from a nuclear plant. Bigger is better.
Let's face it, if you don't have meters, the next best thing is watching tubes glow. If you have the money for it, McIntosh offers both meters and tubes. In fact, Mac goes a step further. They include green LEDs you can watch. Of course not everyone is happy with that aesthetic--might be too Matrixy for some. My guess is the next big McThing will be multi-color LEDs. You find that right now on a lot of PC board components--why Mac hasn't incorporated multi-colored flashing LEDs into their amps is something I can't explain. Maybe next year it'll be in the catalog. If so, dealers could offer a retrofit at the next McIntosh clinic. You know, where Mac owners lug their amps in to be measured, and while they wait get the dealer to look at their needle for free, using that expensive stereo microscope dealers have to buy in order to get the franchise...
As far as Archimago? His audio stuff is OK. Nada problemo, there. However I'm not sure sure I'd be touting an 'anti-quakery' line, at least from an establishment 'medical' standpoint. That is, holding up organized medicine as some sort of 'objective' template as how to conduct, publish, and push honesty. But that's another topic, altogether.
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Totally!
My anecdote wasn't meant to be "tubes are superior sound quality" but rather some personal perspective on the general idea of "sub-par sound quality" from tube amps.
While I have preferred tube amps for my particular systems, to no surprise I've heard tons of incredible sounding set ups with solid state amps. I mean, we are talking pretty subtle differences in the big scheme of things.
Still, in the decades of auditioning tons of speakers I've always insisted "no tubes or vinyl" when checking out a speaker. Too many variables with that stuff. I want to hear a speaker "at it's best" and with the most neutral source/amplification so I have a good idea of the character of that speaker. Then, if I want to screw it up with tubes at home, that's up to me
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Agreed. Back when Aczel was The Devil in the eyes of many audiophiles I was reading The Audio Critic as a nice palliative after reading the more subjective rags. I really appreciated his cutting through the b.s. (even if I didn't entirely like everything he liked. I did love the Waveform speakers, that he rated very highly).
Agreed. I love the aesthetics of tube amps and the conceptual aspect. The way I can actually "see" the music signal glowing in the tubes!
Due to a very packed equipment rack, for 20 years my CJ Premier 12 monoblocks have been caged and placed sort of out of site at the bottom of the racks. I was able to sell stuff and re-arrange so this year I could put one "pride of place" atop my rack, with the cage off, and I much prefer seeing the tubes! Here's a photo of one of the monoblocks:
BTW, one more bit of anecdote/experience I have found interesting:
I have long suffered from Hyperacusis - an increased sensitivity to sound which, when it is flaring up, is quite painful. I have certain "frequency notches" that can cause actual pain. So (again, when the hyperacusis is flaring up...), if I use a pure tone generator and start sliding the frequency range upward, if I hit a certain frequency (it could be 2k, 8k or whatever) the sound will suddenly "leap out" as if it's right beside my ear and I'll have a stabbing pain like someone has just quickly shoved a q-tip painfully in to my ear drum. And that happens even at very low db levels. Yet if that tone is buried within a wider frequency spectrum, e.g. within music, or even within pink noise, it doesn't bother me. I can listen quite loud.
But when the hyperacusis is being a factor, if I'm listening to music and there is a tone that is in a very narrow frequency range, very pure, and happens to hit one of my "pain points" it will stab my ears. Could be a particular note hit by a trumpet player, clarinet, cymbals, synth tone, whatever. Automatic stabbing pain - my head will actually flinch involuntarily at the pain.
For quite a while now I've had my CJ tube pre-amp run through my Benchmark LA4 solid state preamp, so that I can flick between either preamp with my remote. If I'm listening with the LA4 and wonder "what will this sound like going through the CJ tube preamp" I can do so with a touch of the remote and the CJ is now in the chain.
I've noticed that when there is a track that is bothering my hyperacusis causing me pain, very often when I switch to the CJ tube preamp, the pain is mitigated or even goes away completely and my ears can relax. And this is true even when I turn the sound up louder with the CJ preamp!
Could be various explanations of course, but my hunch/impression is that the CJ sounds like it slightly thickens the sound all around, so even higher end transients and thin tones are slightly thickened with a bit of distortion. My hunch is that this helps bury or embed the offending frequency in that distortion, making it less painful. Just as I can do if I am listening to a pure tone that hurts, but I slowly bring up a bit of white or pink noise behind it, so it no longer hurts. I dunno. But it does seem to come in useful sometimes.
140w/monoblock. That must feel nice in hand when dialing up a volume level. What year are yours?
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