Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[Trell]

That’s very funny.

Based upon my knowledge of the cost of the licence as detailed in the first part of my post.

The part you edited from my quote.

DSP (edit: codecs) and HDMI licensing costs is a very big chunk of the cost of an AVR, according to M Code member over at audioholics and he is an industry insider. Making sure that HDMI is working to specs along with extensive testing is expensive. Topping is a very, very small company compared to Denon or Yamaha, so no volume rebates either.

HDMI without codecs and HDCP the DM7 not that useful either for so many many in this thread complaining about no-HDMI. If Topping where the implement this they would complain about the price.

 

[sarumbear]

That’s very funny.

Based upon my knowledge of the cost of the licence as detailed in the first part of my post.

The part you edited from my quote.

That’s because you were stipulating in your post and what I removed didn’t show that you have any knowledge on the matter.

 

[Trell]

I’m amazed at the lengths people will go to, so as to avoid a point raised.

To be clear.

If an AV can be an AV amp (which presumably costs “some money”) then the cost of licensing HDMI for the item can only cost a portion of that.

What use is HDMI without codecs along with the required HDCP, to expand on your arguments you’ve made earlier?

As an example of licensing cost for codecs: I own the Denon AVR-X4200W that is a 2015 model and for that one I can buy Auro-3D firmware upgrade for $199 at release time. This software is now included in several models for “free”, but then D&M is a big player so they could negotiate a lower price per unit.

With no codecs I think that Topping made a sensible decision to cut down on costs for this device.

 

[voodooless]

Generally the royalties for these things are a few cents to a few dollars. But note that you need quite a few: HDMI, HDCP, a shitload of codecs, then you’ll probably buy some IP to do the decoding. That adds up. Luckily since 2017 the Dolby Digital patent ran out, so no royalties are needed. Good for Dolby that Atmos came along

 

[Trell]

Generally the royalties for these things are a few cents to a few dollars. But note that you need quite a few: HDMI, HDCP, a shitload of codecs, then you’ll probably buy some IP to do the decoding. That adds up. Luckily since 2017 the Dolby Digital patent ran out, so no royalties are needed. Good for Dolby that Atmos came along

But the cost of all these licenses really adds up, and the hardware requirements for the needed DSP as well as copy protection is also expensive.

Some posters here wants a Topping AVP for $600. That won’t happen anytime some.

 

[voodooless]

But the cost of all these licenses really adds up

That’s literally what I said:

That adds up

Some posters here wants a Topping AVP for $600. That won’t happen anytime some.

It definitely will not!

 

[Trell]

That’s literally what I said:

I just formulated it a little different as to have, hopefully, a more combined impact. Not holding my breath though.

 

[MacCali]

Yes, you have no idea why this device exists even though you feel you can critique it.

I mean it just seems like a niche piece of equipment.

Also I am not sure if you fed that dac a signal from the tv if it would even function as a HT.

I’m not sure what the tv does or if it does any sound processing, decoding, etc. but if this is true it just to further shows how niche this.

I hope you got my points now, whether they were wrong or right if it had multiuse even more than what it got now it would be a major hit.

Who knows it still might be, but I’ve owned many topping products so this ain’t an attack on topping and clearly I also gave advice

My critique is incorrect so be it, I get it now; move on lol

 

[HammerSandwich]

I mean it just seems like a niche piece of equipment.

And thank goodness!

Folks who want fewer channels have plenty of options. Per ASR review index, Amir has recommended at least a dozen stereo DACs under $300 in the last year alone. Not reviewed - recommended.

 

[dartinbout]

I’m amazed at the lengths people will go to, so as to avoid a point raised.

To be clear.

If an AV can be an AV amp (which presumably costs “some money”) then the cost of licensing HDMI for the item can only cost a portion of that.

To develop the point. You can buy an AV amp with HDMI for £300.

This DAC costs £600.

If absolutely everything on previous AV amps cost absolutely nothing (I’ll give you a clue, it didn’t), then the maximum cost of adding HDMI is £30. Which would make this £900.

I’m not sure, at the level we’re discussing, that this price difference is a deal breaker.

At a more realistic valuation, HDMI licensing on a £300 AV amp is £50-£100 (and I suspect less than that).

Selling an HDMI version of this at £650-£700 absolute maximum would appear to be a no-brainier.

No brainer? That attribute should be applied where it fits a bit better, Don't you think?
/r on
What I think is wonderful about so many in this thread, is the level of hubris to demand a manufacturer to create a product that suits their specific needs. To bathe this supplication with legitimacy, they stipulate that a a nebulous group of "others" must want what they want. To put the cherry on the top of this "Karen" sundae, they dip into the uncharted bowl of manufacturing costs and licensing without so much a spoonful of knowledge as to engineer to cost\value of producing their imaginary dessert. Is there an HDMI port on the Okto DAC 8 Pro? How dare Pavel not meet their needs. How about a Trinnov? Does any of the Exasound multichannel DACS have an HDMI?. They also cost many, many multiples of this $600 unique product. I'm sure if you bend over far enough you can find a port that more closely fits your needs.
/r off

 

[sam_adams]

No brainer? That attribute should be applied where it fits a bit better, Don't you think?
/r on
What I think is wonderful about so many in this thread, is the level of hubris to demand a manufacturer to create a product that suits their specific needs. To bathe this supplication with legitimacy, they stipulate that a a nebulous group of "others" must want what they want. To but the cherry on the top of this "Karen" sundae, they dip into the uncharted bowl of manufacturing costs and licensing without so much a spoonful of knowledge as to engineer to cost\value of producing their imaginary dessert. Is there an HDMI port on the Okto DAC 8 Pro? How dare Pavel not meet their needs. How about a Trinnov? Does any of the Exasound multichannel DACS have an HDMI?. They also cost many, many multiples of this $600 unique product. I'm sure you bend over far enough you can find a port that more closely fits your needs.
/r off

The presence of an HDMI connector does not mean that the device has a decoder chip for audio formats that an AVR would have. Like many of the standalone DACs that have been reviewed here on ASR, the HDMI connector is being used for I2S. In that regard that HDMI connector is not really an interface 'standard' for I2S. Use of the HDMI connector in-and-of itself does not incur licensing fees. Those fees apply to the use of the transceiver chip that would be needed to 'talk' HDMI protocols along with the associated physical decoder chips and codecs.

 

[tiramisu]

I don't mind HDMI. It is HDCP licensing I loathe.

 

[dartinbout]

Everybody who loves the intersection of audio/(video) reproduction and technology is held aloft by the shorties of an industry founded on ripping off artists as their core business model. Piracy so freaked them out they tried to create legislation, in the 80's, that made it illegal to have a tape player (or some such craziness). This is why we have HDCP, HDMI (a truly foul interface, IMHO) IToones and all the water sports called "streaming". Corporate greed must always be identified as the enemy of joy, life and everything worthwhile.
We live in a wondrous age where insanely good music playback is within the hands of people, who go to work, have families and live in this economic hell scape we call 2022.
Hats off to Topping of allowing some light into the world.

 

[Holmz]

You mean measure the SINAD of software processing?

It is easy to measure the SINAD of a tone.

If it is, say, a crossover, then one would need to know what to expect mathematically to figure out if the math is correct.
That is usually expressed as passband ripple, or other things.

One probably would want impulses to determine what is happening in the time domain, and to avoid looking at the steady state frequency domain.

 

[dualazmak]

Where does XLR pin-3 connects on the TRS.

Is this diagram easier for your understanding?

 

[dualazmak]

Can someone explain to me why all this folks stick to there TV? It is 2022... TV receivers are available with Linux, Windows and other software for years, free to programm and rout the outputs even more.

The only thing what my TV does is showing me the picture on the screen over HDMI or DP.
All this smart stuff is just trouble, because every TV brand dose there one software and does not support connectivity after 2-4 years.

I agree with you. I wrote the same in my post here, rather in detail.

 

[sarumbear]

My critique is incorrect so be it, I get it now; move on lol

My responses are for the benefit of other members so that they do not mislead by your comments.

 

[sarumbear]

It is easy to measure the SINAD of a tone.

If it is, say, a crossover, then one would need to know what to expect mathematically to figure out if the math is correct.
That is usually expressed as passband ripple, or other things.

One probably would want impulses to determine what is happening in the time domain, and to avoid looking at the steady state frequency domain.

Is that done on audio processing software?

 

[wyup]

This and five I-Loud MTMs and you get a high-caliber home cinema setup around your pc for 2,350€.
If you want to use it with a TV, you can use a barebones htpc or an android tv set-top-box and use Kodi with the remote included, or add a usb tv-tuner for windows pc.
You can connect the DM7 dac to android or pc by usb, and video through HDMI. Android should recognize multichannel usb dac-out. Usually usb audio can be enabled/disabled from developer options on Android.

To me, the problem with the i-louds would be setting the central channel upright at the same height as the front ones, because the center should be horizontally at the same height to get pans right, if you place them above or bellow the tv it would be non optimal, and setting the central horizontal would lower directivity.

I have an old but well regarded logitech X-540 5.1 setup on my pc and have the central horizontally atop my monitor. Pans are not perfect but I love this system. I play music on foobar2000 and use some surround upmixer for stereo. It is the cheapest and best audio investment I have ever done in my life, sometimes I prefer it to my stereo amp and speakers for my tv.

 

[Holmz]

Is that done on audio processing software?

All a DAC does is convert numbers to signals.

But S/W either decodes 5.1, 7.n.n etc, or does bandpass filtering for a crossover, so something on that order.