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The basket looks pretty, too bad it’s on the inside
A lot of money?
The basket looks pretty, too bad it’s on the inside
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Børresen M1
- Thread starter Pearljam5000
- Start date
And why they use unoptainium ahmm sry. Zirconium? I know its used in nuclear fuel rods. But speakers??
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40 Hz low range at 87 dB sensitivity with a 4" woofer? Impossible with our current physics, I'd say. Since they do not spec the level range for the FR (+/- x dB) all bets are off though.
I gave the same experience to a colleage when I placed my Genelec 8020a (same woofer size) on top of my K&H O300D (in a 50 sqm room) for comparison. I switched the sub off and then we compared O300D with 8020a. When I played Kari Bremnes Svarta Bjørn CD which contains nice and deep bass he swore the sub was on. He finally crawled down to the sub to find out it was really quiet. Increasing SPL then showed the limit of the small woofer.
There are a few things to learn here.
- With perfect placement of a small speaker the room gain can help a lot to lower the low frequency limit. Remember the 8020a sports a lower limit of 66 Hz at -3 dB. This also brings us to the 2nd point.
- Many people confuse mid bass (>70 Hz) with low bass. Most music has no significant content below 40 Hz, and very few speakers are able to reproduce content below 40 Hz anyway, including many floorstanders (they play louder but not necessarily deeper). Someone who has never heard a sub playing really deep bass is easily confused to miss mid bass with low bass.
- The typical hifi bump (~100 Hz) in the FR creates the impression of more and deeper bass due to the brains ability to recreate the missing fundamental. The bump makes the first harmonic louder hence the brain recreates a louder fundamental.
Hi
Glancing through this thread, it seems to me that some are trying very hard to justify the asking price for a 2-Way speaker with a 4.5 inch, let me repeat, 4.5inch woofer and some planar mid-tweeter in a wooden box with some stand attached (perhaps not) to it.
And I re-read the price...
One Hundred Thousands Dollars, US dollars which, today July 17, 2022, is at parity with the Euro... thus this thing, cost €100,000. No typo.
SERIOUSLY?!??
Please people. Let's dismiss this thing for what it is : A money grab. The laws of physics and the laws of common sense are still applicable. This is seriously not even snake oil it is highway robbery. One of these days, a regulator, will sniff into the HEA (High End Audio) industry, practices and take them to the task. Mark my words. The HEA is pushing the enveloppe, it will break at one point. Many will counter that they are a Luxury industry and can claim quite a few things, except that Rolex has (and won't) ever claim to be more precise than a Casio Quartz, or Luis Vuitton to claim their luggage, to be more durable and robust than a Pelikan's...
Peace
Glancing through this thread, it seems to me that some are trying very hard to justify the asking price for a 2-Way speaker with a 4.5 inch, let me repeat, 4.5inch woofer and some planar mid-tweeter in a wooden box with some stand attached (perhaps not) to it.
And I re-read the price...
One Hundred Thousands Dollars, US dollars which, today July 17, 2022, is at parity with the Euro... thus this thing, cost €100,000. No typo.
SERIOUSLY?!??
Please people. Let's dismiss this thing for what it is : A money grab. The laws of physics and the laws of common sense are still applicable. This is seriously not even snake oil it is highway robbery. One of these days, a regulator, will sniff into the HEA (High End Audio) industry, practices and take them to the task. Mark my words. The HEA is pushing the enveloppe, it will break at one point. Many will counter that they are a Luxury industry and can claim quite a few things, except that Rolex has (and won't) ever claim to be more precise than a Casio Quartz, or Luis Vuitton to claim their luggage, to be more durable and robust than a Pelikan's...
Peace
OP
Pearljam5000
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I wonder who buys these speakers and how many they sell
They don't even care to sell one.. They want the buzz and we are helping unwittingly.. Soon, someone from the HEA press will "review" one pair, and declare it to be a bargain... becaue such as small speaker in his very large living room, extended the soundstage , teleported Diana Krall in the room and shook the room , threatening the house foundations ... Form that people will notice they do exist, and they will sell other speakers..
I refrain as much as I can to even discuss such money-grabs but .. here we are.
Peace.
People who have so much money that this seems an honest price to them.
I guess they will not sell thousands of them. If you remove dealer and distributor markups, I would say that this is worth 40-50k at the manufacturer door. Now you have some designers to pay, sales, workers, floorplan, support functions,... and huge amount of advertisement money. At the end I wonder if the margin is that huge.
who here is trying to justify that price? some of us were trying to explain where some of the cost is in the production of this. whether that's justified, is an entirely different thing, and much more complex than what you're trying to present (not to mention it has no actual definitive answer), particularly as there are no available detailed measurements.
just like we shouldn't praise something based purely on conjecture, we shouldn't mindlessly bash it either. this forum is becoming worse by the day
uh... where to even begin here... Rolex (or Omega or Heuer or Patek or FPJ or MB&F or...) don't need to advertise anything vs Casio (or nearly any other) quartz watch, it is irrelevant to their customer base and wouldn't make a lick of a difference if they did, idem for your LV analogy. Grand Seiko could easily advertise their luxury Spring drive watches being more accurate than anything other than above average quartz movements, and yet they really don't.... i wonder why (i don't, really)
don't get me wrong, i'd absolutely love a regulator to step in and force the HEA at large to stop spreading lies and fantasies. but i'm not willing to pay the price
(i.e. increased manufacturing costs) not to mention it would be extremely difficult to do it in speakerlandia without a much more thorough, deep and vast research than what Toole and Olive did... who's gonna pay for that? (but, to be honest, i'd be more than happy if such regulations were limited to cables and electronics. that would clean up a huge part of the mess in HEA)who here is trying to justify that price? some of us were trying to explain where some of the cost is in the production of this. whether that's justified, is an entirely different thing, and much more complex than what you're trying to present (not to mention it has no actual definitive answer), particularly as there are no available detailed measurements.
just like we shouldn't praise something based purely on conjecture, we shouldn't mindlessly bash it either. this forum is becoming worse by the day
uh... where to even begin here... Rolex (or Omega or Heuer or Patek or FPJ or MB&F or...) don't need to advertise anything vs Casio (or nearly any other) quartz watch, it is irrelevant to their customer base and wouldn't make a lick of a difference if they did, idem for your LV analogy. Grand Seiko could easily advertise their luxury Spring drive watches being more accurate than anything other than above average quartz movements, and yet they really don't.... i wonder why (i don't, really)
don't get me wrong, i'd absolutely love a regulator to step in and force the HEA at large to stop spreading lies and fantasies. but i'm not willing to pay the price
Ok, I believe you. Some of you were trying to explain, as opposed to "justify", how a basic 2 way speaker would have a Bill Of Material and manufacture costs so considerable as to be priced at $100,000.oo... A tall mountain to climb, you would agree, and I am sure many would fail at...
What new grounds does this speaker break? What problem does the use of Zirconium solve? all that for $100,000.oo?
Seriously how can a person explain such extraordinary price for a pair of 4.5 (!!!!) inch driver and a planar mid/tweeter, in a box? Please help me, such will definitely further my knowledge.
My point about Rolex ,etc is that they make no claim of superior performance. As matter of fact they can't. They wouldn't dare get into the accuracy game, where they would be certain to lose, however irrelevant this is to their customer base. They make jewelry , know it, and people pay for it .. Should we do the same for audio components? Pay the jewelry price, knowing for well the performance is likely to be, pedestrian
Conjecture put aside.. The Borrseen , thing is not the most expensive 2-way. The gold medal likely belongs to that thing:
Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure – $5m
Peace.
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ok, I have no objection for the real rich guys to obess for gold with everything from tiolet to speakers, but what the.... F is this desig doing... somehow looks like some obease guy sitting on a chair...Ok, I believe you. Some of you were trying to explain, as opposed to "justify", how a basic 2 way speaker would have a Bill Of Material and manufacture costs so considerable as to be priced at $100,000.oo... A tall mountain to climb, you would agree, and I am sure many would fail at...
What new grounds does this speaker break? What problem does the use of Zirconium solve? all that for $100,000.oo?
Seriously how can a person explain such extraordinary price for a pair of 4.5 (!!!!) inch driver and a planar mid/tweeter, in a box? Please help me, such will definitely further my knowledge.
My point about Rolex ,etc is that they make no claim of superior performance. As matter of fact they can't. They wouldn't dare get into the accuracy game, where they would be certain to lose, however irrelevant this is to their customer base. They make jewelry , know and people pay for it .. Should we do the same for audio components? Pay the jewelry price, knowing for well the performance is likely to be, pedestrian
Conjecture put aside.. The Borrseen , thing is not the most expensive 2-way. The gold medal likely belongs to that thing:
Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure – $5m
Peace.
Ok, I believe you. Some of you were trying to explain, as opposed to "justify", how a basic 2 way speaker would have a Bill Of Material and manufacture costs so considerable as to be priced at $100,000.oo... A tall mountain to climb, you would agree, and I am sure many would fail at...
What new grounds does this speaker break? What problem does the use of Zirconium solve? all that for $100,000.oo?
Seriously how can a person explain such extraordinary price for a pair of 4.5 (!!!!) inch driver and a planar mid/tweeter, in a box? Please help me, such will definitely further my knowledge.
My point about Rolex ,etc is that they make no claim of superior performance. As matter of fact they can't. They wouldn't dare get into the accuracy game, where they would be certain to lose, however irrelevant this is to their customer base. They make jewelry , know and people pay for it .. Should we do the same for audio components? Pay the jewelry price, knowing for well the performance is likely to be, pedestrian
Conjecture put aside.. The Borrseen , thing is not the most expensive 2-way. The gold medal likely belongs to that thing:
Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure – $5m
Peace.
What is this looks like a coax with a second tweeter???
The difference with Rolex is that if you buy a sport watch at retail, you can sell it immediately for (a lot) more money. And you can use it for a few years and still get more than you paid for it. There's not anything like that in audio. These $100k speakers will go for a lot less used.
Gold material price, not one cent more.
The stainless steel Daytona sells for 40% more than retail. That is, you could buy one at the dealer for retail(good luck getting one) and sell it the next day for 40% more.
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